Gruler Nation Podcast

Episode #83: Improve Your Overall Health and Wellness with Dr. Rodarte

January 13, 2020 Robert F. Gruler Jr., Esq.
Gruler Nation Podcast
Episode #83: Improve Your Overall Health and Wellness with Dr. Rodarte
Chapters
Gruler Nation Podcast
Episode #83: Improve Your Overall Health and Wellness with Dr. Rodarte
Jan 13, 2020
Robert F. Gruler Jr., Esq.

Dr. Rodarte is a board-certified physician who has been practicing since 2005. Board-certified in Internal Medicine and Obesity Medicine, she also holds certifications in wound care, hyperbaric medicine and medical aesthetics. Dr. Rodarte is the owner of Activated Health & Wellness, a medical practice dedicated to providing personalized, whole patient care. 

 

Dr. Rodarte focuses on integrated, whole- person care which allows her to identify the root cause of disease and deficiencies. Integrated care has been a term that reflects a concern to not only improve upon the overall patient experience, but most importantly to achieve greater efficiency and value from health delivery systems. Dr. Rodarte’s passion for treating patients, along with a science-based approach to improving quality of life isn’t limited to treating diagnoses; rather she is focused on achieving optimum health from the inside-out. 

 

Dr. Rodarte encourages everyone who is looking for more individualized health care to help you live a longer and healthier life to schedule a consultation and experience what personalized, whole person care is! To find out more visit her Facebook page at https://www.facebook.com/ActivatedHealthWellness 

Or connect with Dr. Rodarte on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/company/activated-health-wellness/ and be sure to visit Dr. Rodarte's website at https://activated.health/ 

 

Please Like, Subscribe, and Comment below! 

 

#ActivatedHealthandWellness #health #wellness #acitvatedhealth #physician #internalmedicine #obesitymedicine #medicine #aesthetics #hyperbaricmedicine #individualhealthcare #wholepersoncare #qualityoflife #optimumhealth #healthylife #podcast #InspirationwithGrulerNation #inspire #gruler #inspiration #GrulerNation #GrulerNationPodcast #gnp #arizonapodcast #scottsdale #yesphx #phx  

 

The Gruler Nation Podcast is a show that focuses on conversations with interesting "Level 10" people passionate about changing the world with their work, relationships and ideas. The show is hosted by Robert Gruler, an attorney and founding partner of the R&R Law Group, a criminal defense law firm based in Scottsdale, Arizona focused on helping good people charged with crimes move forward with their lives.   

 

Interested in being on the show or have a guest recommendation? Email Robert directly at robert@rrlawaz.com or visit www.robgruler.com for more information.  

 

 

 

Show Notes Transcript

Dr. Rodarte is a board-certified physician who has been practicing since 2005. Board-certified in Internal Medicine and Obesity Medicine, she also holds certifications in wound care, hyperbaric medicine and medical aesthetics. Dr. Rodarte is the owner of Activated Health & Wellness, a medical practice dedicated to providing personalized, whole patient care. 

 

Dr. Rodarte focuses on integrated, whole- person care which allows her to identify the root cause of disease and deficiencies. Integrated care has been a term that reflects a concern to not only improve upon the overall patient experience, but most importantly to achieve greater efficiency and value from health delivery systems. Dr. Rodarte’s passion for treating patients, along with a science-based approach to improving quality of life isn’t limited to treating diagnoses; rather she is focused on achieving optimum health from the inside-out. 

 

Dr. Rodarte encourages everyone who is looking for more individualized health care to help you live a longer and healthier life to schedule a consultation and experience what personalized, whole person care is! To find out more visit her Facebook page at https://www.facebook.com/ActivatedHealthWellness 

Or connect with Dr. Rodarte on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/company/activated-health-wellness/ and be sure to visit Dr. Rodarte's website at https://activated.health/ 

 

Please Like, Subscribe, and Comment below! 

 

#ActivatedHealthandWellness #health #wellness #acitvatedhealth #physician #internalmedicine #obesitymedicine #medicine #aesthetics #hyperbaricmedicine #individualhealthcare #wholepersoncare #qualityoflife #optimumhealth #healthylife #podcast #InspirationwithGrulerNation #inspire #gruler #inspiration #GrulerNation #GrulerNationPodcast #gnp #arizonapodcast #scottsdale #yesphx #phx  

 

The Gruler Nation Podcast is a show that focuses on conversations with interesting "Level 10" people passionate about changing the world with their work, relationships and ideas. The show is hosted by Robert Gruler, an attorney and founding partner of the R&R Law Group, a criminal defense law firm based in Scottsdale, Arizona focused on helping good people charged with crimes move forward with their lives.   

 

Interested in being on the show or have a guest recommendation? Email Robert directly at robert@rrlawaz.com or visit www.robgruler.com for more information.  

 

 

 

Support the show (https://www.ericshouse.org/donate/)

Speaker 1:

This is [inaudible] is episode 83 of the Gruler Nation Podcast. My name is Robert Gruler, joined today by dr Melody Rodarte, who is the owner of activated health and wellness, which is a new medical practice that is in Gilbert, Arizona. We're going to talk a lot about, well a lot of different things, but let me give you a little bit of background on dr [inaudible]. So she is a [inaudible] board certified physicians. She's been practicing since 2005. She's board certified in internal medicine and obesity medicine, holds a number of different certifications, wound care, hyperbaric medicine, medical aesthetics and so on and so forth. She very recently opened up her own office, so she was working at a number of different, uh, places throughout the Valley. We'll dive in there, but she's got a new medical practice is dedicated to providing personalized whole patient care. And I guess let me welcome you to the show first. Melody, thanks for being here. Thank you so much for having me. And it's, it's this idea, there's this, there's this term going around. It's called integrated care. And, uh, you know, I, I don't really know what that is. Can you tell? Can you tell us about that?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah. So, you know, integrated care is, um, whole person care. It's really taking care of the whole patient and integrating multiple types of, of treatments and not doing just traditional medicine, which, um, is almost called just Western medicine by itself. It's really looking at the whole person and looking at other modalities of, of treatment and other providers in the healthcare profession that we can team up with.

Speaker 1:

So how does that compare with maybe what most people are used to in the medical industry?

Speaker 2:

Most people are just really used to going and seeing their doctor when they're sick or if they have to get a physical, um, and maybe just when they need a refill on a medication, but not really looking at how do I prevent getting sick? How do I prevent, you know, not having what my parents or my grandparents had. How do I optimize my health? And that's the future of medicine, um, is how do we slow down the aging process and what do we do in order to stay healthy?

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So, so I'm trying to just, you know, kind of pull from my own experience because I, I don't have a doctor who does integrative medicine. It's, it's exactly like you said, my throat hurts. I go see my doctor, he prescribes me some antibiotics and that's it. Right? If I break a knee or something, I go see a, an orthopedic person. And so what you're saying is that this new approach is sort of looking at all of the different angles of a person's life and then helping them craft a plan to maximize their, their health and wellness?

Speaker 2:

Yes. Yes, definitely. I, I started off back in 2005, 2006 when I would see my patients, I'd say, you know, my goal is for you to see me even when you're healthy so that we can implement things in order to keep you healthy and out of my office. And back then it was very non traditional. The here that were there, they would look at and say, you want to, you want to see me when I'm healthy. And nowadays, especially I would say 30 year olds, 40 year olds, even 50, they're like, w I don't want to, I don't want to grow old. The way I saw my parents from taking care of my parents. What are things that we can do now? And it's becoming more mainstream, uh, to, to, to fight the aging process. And I don't want to always say fight the aging process. You want to just slow it down, run it. Um, you know, we're all gonna grow old, but I want to be active. I don't know about you, but I want to be planned til the day I die.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. Right. Not have that kind of real slow, long debilitating decline. So you said that, I mean, th th th th the medical industry is kind of trending this way, you think?

Speaker 2:

I th I definitely think so because I've been going to some newer types of, uh, conferences that are, are geared towards, um, a new term that you might not have heard about. It's like functional medicine or anti-aging and regenerative medicine. And the theme is how do we keep people healthy? How do we slow down that aging process? How do we live our best self? How do we activate our life? That's where I got the name of my practice activated health is I wanted to teach people how to activate their, their lives. There are ways that we can, we can tell our body, Hey, let's turn on these genes. Let's, let's turn off these genes. It's, um, we're not stuck with what we were born with.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. And it, and I think I, you know, obviously this is not my space, but it is, it is something that I'm pretty passionate about. I like to take care of myself and, you know, try to exercise a lot and do the right things, but I, I still would, would believe that I kind of subscribe to that old paradigm of I don't need to see a doctor unless I'm sick. Right. So, and now people are transitioning away from that. It just kind of seems like it may be a maybe kind of difficult to convey to people. The benefits of doing that. Right. Why would somebody go see a doctor if they're healthy? That's just something that we're kind of born. It's ingrained in our system. You don't go to the doctor when you're feeling well, you go when you're sick, you know, three year old knows that. Right. So, so how is it, how are you having that conversation with people or, or what is prompting people to maybe decide that they want to switch into this new form where they're having more of an ongoing relationship with their doctor

Speaker 2:

and until it's more mainstream? I think we're mostly, people are when they're becoming ill or coming or they're worried about certain things, it's the first time they're fatigued and nutrition or exercise isn't working. I've been doing obesity medicine for the last seven years and more people are like, you know, I'll have someone who wants to lose 10 pounds as well as someone who wants to lose 200 pounds and they're wanting to know what they can do. I think now that I'm doing everything that I do underneath one roof, um, and my name has been out there a little bit more there. I'm getting all aspects of people who are healthy, who want to stay healthy all the way to those who are like, I'm on 20 medications to help me get off of these. I think reaching, uh, um, people, uh, like in your age group and who aren't ill and have only gone when they do have a sore throat or break their knee.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. That's going to be a different challenge where they're starting to read things or in magazines or seeing, um, what, what is this? Should I do genetic testing? Genetic testing is really, you know, um, I'm getting a lot of, uh, feedback, you know, and what is it? Is it worth it to do that 23 and me and what do I do with this information? Right. So they're looking for physicians who can have a conversation and other, um, in other countries they're used to doing acupuncture or doing other things to stay healthy. And I, I think that we are seeing that in that personalized health market. More people are like, what, what are other countries doing? Should I do this here? And we're, we're seeing that approach in the States as well.

Speaker 1:

Right. It, it, it's, it is going to be transformative. But I think, I think w when more people understand what is offered under that, that option, it will become a lot more, uh, kind of obvious to them that this is the better approach. Because my, my current doctor, I haven't seen him since I was a boy, you know, and, and he doesn't offer any of those things. Right. And the issue there that I can see is that people, it feels to me like the medical profession is very compartmentalized, right? You go see one doctor for one specific ailment. If they prescribe you something, they may, you know, the next doctor you see for the other element is not going to necessarily know about that. Or he may not, you know, he may, it's too many differing opinions basically. There's too many cooks in the kitchen a lot of the time. And so, you know, your approach then is to sort of do a holistic, a whole body analysis and say, this is what we're going to do. Are you walk me through kind of the process when, you know, when a new patient comes in, are they coming to see you for one specific ailment or they saying, I just want to level my life up, you know, do they have weight loss goals? Do they have performance goals? Kind of. How are you, how are you processing somebody through what, what, what it is you do?

Speaker 2:

I think all of the above is, is usually what I was, what I'm being able to see right now. So, because I'm, I just opened my practice that does all of that. So, um, and in the past I've also been a consultant because when I left primary, mainstream, primary care seven years ago, eight years ago, um, a lot of my patients were sad because I became a bridge for them. So they started to learn that, um, you know, you just don't see me when you're ill. There are things that I want to put in place. And when I left primary care, they didn't have that person to kind of bridge through. So I saw that there was definitely something lacking. My obesity medicine patients, they liked that about me. I would talk to them more about just losing weight and what was their number? It was kind of like, how do we take control of your health now it's a lifestyle change.

Speaker 2:

And so what I'm seeing in my practice now is, is all of those types of of patients are seeking me out and wanting to do more than just let's say, uh, be their general practitioner or just lose weight with me. They want to know how do I optimize my hormones, how do I exercise better? And I mean, a perfect example of one of my patients today, he lost about a hundred pounds with me. Now he's running marathons and he's learned, he's, he brought me to new genetic testing. Is this worth it, you know, or is this going to give me any information that's really going to help me out? And I love it because it challenges me too because I'm like, I haven't heard of that one. I will do the research, I'll get back to you. Let's, let's see if it's something that would benefit you or if it's, you know, um, you know, just something that's too new that we don't have enough information about.

Speaker 2:

So, um, I'm kind of getting everybody right now, which I like because I'm, I also do, I like to say I'm a team player, so I have multiple colleagues who I can say, you know, I don't know this question or this answer, I'm going to call them up or I'm going to have you see them. Um, another great example of someone, she just, she had heard about me, she was at her wit's end about, um, thinking that something was wrong in her office environment. I decided, yeah, I think this sounds like you might be getting mold toxicity in, in your new workplace. It had just been renovated. So I, that's not my specialty, but one of the natural paths I, I work with, that's her specialty and the two of us are helping to treat her. You know, and she's actually doing much better right now. So it's also about working with, um, a network of, of other healthcare professionals that can take great care of your patient too.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So you act as sort of the center point. They come, they come to you and if you can handle it, great. If not, you, you've, you've got a network now, how long have you been a doctor?

Speaker 2:

Uh, I've been in practice since 2005.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So, so over the course of those years, right, you build up relationships with other people and there's a lot of value in that. Right? We know that as, as attorneys, there are some attorneys who are really nice people, but you don't send them cases, you don't refer cases over to them because they don't do a good job legally speaking. Right. And so, you know, that's only something that you can get with experience. My, one of my, one of my questions was, I think part of the, the reason why a lot of people like, like me may not understand what integrative care is, is because our vision of what doctors do is they, they prescribe drugs, right? They, they prescribe medication, they check your temperature. They're in there with you for 15 minutes in the room. They do a throat, throat, culture. Yep. It's strep. Here's amoxicillin and get out of here. Right? Next, next patient. That's it. There's no, there's no deep dive into there. Know. Yes. How's your sleep? Good. How's this? Good. Fine. All right, great. You're good. Here's, here's the medicine. Get the hell out of here versus, and so that, that's our perception of what happens in a, in a, in a doctor's office.

Speaker 3:

How many people come to you with issues? How many of them can solved with just simple

Speaker 1:

kind of lifestyle changes?

Speaker 2:

Probably 99% of them. And I would say, okay, you came in with strep throat like WWE or strep or your gut got sick. Like what happened this week? Was your diet off? Did you not sleeping as much? Was it finals and you know, you were cramming, you know, all of those other things we would talk about so we could decrease the chance of you getting sick again. And then, you know, strep throat, a straight strep throat, I'm going to give an antibiotic that's, I'm, I'm not, um, you know, I want do, uh, integrative care is doing both Eastern and Western medicine. But I also say, okay, let's maybe use a probiotic and what does your nutrition look like so that you can heal faster. Um, what are we gonna do and put into place, you know, after you heal to decrease your chance of, of, of getting sick again.

Speaker 2:

So it's kind of that whole person. It's not just, here's the antibiotic, uh, you know, I'll see you when you're sick again. Right? Um, so there's, there's a big difference. And unfortunately medicine is that 10 minute appointment walk in, walk out because of what inch. This'll be a whole different topic, what insurance companies have done, um, to, to medicine. But, and I think a lot of us are tired of that. Not only us as physicians, we're definitely tired of it. Um, but patients, they, they want to have a relationship with their physician. They don't want to just be in and out in 10 minutes. And you know, it's like you got the hand on the door, Oh, I've got this other thing I want to talk about.

Speaker 1:

Right? Right. Yeah. People are used to that kind of, they press a button, they get a pill and that, and that's their solution, right? It's an easy answer. If you've got high cholesterol, take some cholesterol medication and that's gonna solve your problem rather than looking at the actual underlying cause you can't eat that anymore, right? You got to stop that. You've got to exercise more and then do those types of things. But that puts you at a disadvantage when people, now you're trying to actually involve people in their own medical care, right? You can't do those things. You know where you have to, you have to adjust those. But people don't want that. They want, they want the pill. The easy answer. So how do you, how do you grow a business? How do you build a practice when you're telling people that they have to do a bunch of stuff that most people don't want to do?

Speaker 2:

I'm looking for the person who wants to do more than just take a pill. I mean, I've been in practice long enough that I want to have that relationship and to educate my patients. And if someone is just looking for the insurance base, I want my pill, they probably will leave my practice and not and not come again. So, um, you know, it's not to say that someone would change, but I'm personally looking for someone who's wants to have maybe their, their coach, um, and have them put together a team that keeps them healthy and, and not just take a pill after pill after pill. Right.

Speaker 1:

And then just double up on the pills all the time.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. And then you're getting a pill for a side effect that the first pill, you know, caused. It's, it's called, it's also caused called, um, Rukh, uh, root medicine or root cause medicine. Or you're getting down to the root cause. And, and I'm not just putting a bandaid and or covering up something. So that's another term you might hear with integrative medicine, root cause medicine. Um, and yeah, so I'm looking for the person who wants to have that education.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. I've had a couple of other M and MDs on the show, so naturopath doctors and things and you know, they, they, they, they share a lot of the same sentiments, sort of that th this idea that traditional medicine is not as fulfilling as maybe it once used to be. Can you speak to that? I mean, you've been practicing long enough that you've seen some major changes happen.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I've seen a lot of changes. And I'll tell you honestly, um, my very first practice was a geriatric practice and it was, um, majority were, uh, there almost all of them, Medicare. And it was like, if it's not covered by Medicare, they weren't gonna do it. And that was just, it was, it was frightening to me to, to see that. Or I'd be like, cause I was fresh out of residency and I was like, Oh my gosh, we can do all of them, all of these things. And so that's what led me to, you know, opening up my own pro, um, hospital based practice as I wanted to do more. And through the years through those years, I used to have like 30 to 40 minute appointments and by the time 2012 rolled around, I was only allowed to have like 10 or 15 minute appointments. And I would literally have to say, I can only take care of one thing.

Speaker 2:

And if I put that I took care of more than one thing, your insurance is going to bill you for two and you know, two um, visits. And I'm like, that's not medicine. That's, that's horrible care, you know. And that's what led me to leaving primary care in 2012 um, you know, for, uh, a time I do, I'm doing it now again. But that's where medicine has changed in my mentors. Like I remember following around some of my mentors when I was in high school. And, and, and collagen, they did have more time where they could do both, um, primary care, internal medicine, and go to see their patients in the hospital and then come back and see patients that, that does. I don't know how any physician is doing that these days. Um, and I learned very quickly I couldn't do both because of the amount of paperwork you'd have to do and documentation and then you weren't getting reimbursed for spending all that time with your patients. And unfortunately that's a driver at times when you have to meet your, your overhead.

Speaker 1:

What, what do you, why is that, do you think it's, it's just, it's just a matter of, of costs and compensation and insurance rates. I mean, it, I don't know what's so complicated about the entire medical, you know, issue. I mean, we had, we just, we had had a health care, right? That was passed, uh, the affordable care act and not to get too political right. In, in 2008 and now we're running, we have another election coming up and everybody's talking about healthcare again. I thought we solved that. Like, I thought that that was going to solve the problem. And it clearly hasn't. No. And it's the same politicians, the same party

Speaker 3:

who passed the affordable care act and they're talking about all the problems with it and now and now healthcare is another issue again. You know, we have all these people on insurance so, so it's like, I don't know what's so complicated.

Speaker 2:

It has become very complicated and I think it should be as simple as just, Oh, I wish physicians could be in complete control of that because we're the ones who went to medical school. We're the ones who know how to treat our patients. And I don't like insurance telling me what I can and can't do with a patient. And that's why I don't take any, any insurance. I don't want to, I don't want to get in that fight anymore. Um, I know for my family, for us personally, I've always chosen a plan where one, it's my backup, but I'm used to going, I'm going to go see the specialist. I want to see, I'm going to seek out the treatment that I feel is best. And, and not let it govern what, um, you know, that's what pushed me even more into what I do is seeing what happened with my mom's uh, care and my son is, I'm like, there's more to just insurance-based medicine. There is, there's definitely more and, and what can we do to reduce the chances of their diseases progressing, um, or getting another, another disease.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. I did want to ask you about your mom and your son and sort of understand why you got into this space. You know, what kind of prompted you to want to go into medicine and help people. Was it, you know, I didn't know what else to do after college, so I decided to go to medical school or is there more to the story?

Speaker 2:

I actually wanted to be a physician since I was five years old. Yeah. We were just unpacking some boxes and my mom found something I wrote back in in elementary school and I was like, Oh my gosh, I have to figure out how to kind of, my husband and I were, how do we laminate this or frame this? Cause it was, it's just neat. I feel blessed that I knew what I wanted to do from an early age. Um, and my brother had, uh, he was, I don't, I don't know. He always broke an arm, got sick and I'd always want to watch to see how he was put back together again. Um, and I've just always had that caring nature of wanting to, to see, um, how do we, you know, how do doctors do their jobs? So I've, I've always wanted to be a physician, um, but as I started to have my children and I saw some of the things that my son was going through, and traditional medicine wasn't really completely the answer.

Speaker 2:

And with my history of doing hyperbaric medicine, um, and wound care medicine, I was starting to implement some of the things that I would do thing. He has an autoimmune condition called alopecia totalis. So I just want to know what were other things that I could do to reduce the inflammation in his body. So it put me on that track of not only just nutrition, um, a new word that you might have heard about as Nutrogenomix. Um, and, and then my mom, um, she got breast cancer in her 50s, and there's nobody in our family that has breast cancer. She's first, um, you know, person to come to the States from Lebanon. And uh, and I don't know what she was exposed to because she didn't have any medical problems. And then she got it again. So 58, 52 and then at our five year Mark again, it reoccurred and I am just thinking there's gotta be more to this.

Speaker 2:

We're following, you know, the treatment plans that have been provided to us. What else can I do to help one heel? She was having a lot of problems with healing. And then two, how do we stop the complications of some of the treatments? And three, how do we prevent anything further from happening? Do I, I don't want this to reoccur a third time. So it puts me in things into motion on, there's gotta be more than just what I've learned in medical school. I know that things are evolving. Um, and that's what really set off my journey to doing even more and, and teaming up with other healthcare providers.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. It sounds like you've got a knack for sort of reverse engineering things or trying to figure out how all the pieces fit. And that's a valuable skillset.

Speaker 2:

Thank you. And I kind of like you saying that reverse engineering. So yeah, it's, it's, it's part of it balancing the equation and figuring out what's what started at all.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. Healthcare is, and health in general, it's such a, it's such an interesting field because of all of the different and differing opinions. And you know, there are some people who are 100% traditional Western medicine, they're gonna listen to their doctor if it's approved by the FDA and doctor recommends it, they're good to go. And then there's other people who, you know, are anti-vaccine and they're, you know, they're just like, uh, aggressively anti Western medicine. And then you've, you know, you try to find a balance between the two. Cause I think there's validity to both schools of thought. What is your practice look like? Right? Cause there's some, some that you're a doctor, right? You can prescribe stuff and you can, you can do the stuff that a traditional doctor can do. And there's also a lot of value to the other different, uh, modalities, practice types. So how were you kind of balancing those?

Speaker 2:

I think I, I, that's what I do. I balance it and I'll tell people, there are times where we can, we, let's hold off on using a medication. Let's try this first. If it doesn't work then I'm going to tell you your options that you have with a medication. Um, that's kind of really does explain me. I mean, uh, what I love is I do still practice evidence based medicine. So I will tell people, I'm going to look something up for you and I'm going to tell you what's out there. And a great example is there was a wonderful article that came out two months ago with, um, uh, how did slow down prediabetes from converting into two diabetes or, uh, and it was Metformin, which is the most common medication for diabetes, one of the oldest drugs, um, and berberine, which is an herbal supplement.

Speaker 2:

And I loved that it was a greatly put together, um, article and, um, um, research paper and it, berberine did just as well as Metformin with, um, treating prediabetes. And I loved seeing that because I can show my patients, yeah, see we can start here if you don't want to take Metformin, because a lot of them are nervous with everything that's happening. Like, you know, was it made in China? Is it had the NDA in it? Like, am I going to get sick now because I'm taking this? Is it, you know, does it have something bad in it? So I like to find things that we can do both. And I, you said you were interviewing some and an MDs, you know, natural paths. I've made friends with so many natural paths and they like it because if some, if they felt like, okay, someone's got to really do the medication part, they send him to me. And if I'm like, Oh, I need to have, you know, someone do more of the, um, some of their natural holistic treatments, I, you know, I send them to them and we have that great synergy between the two of us. Um, and same with some holistic chiropractors. They, they'll do some of that too. So I, I tell people it's why it's individualized medicine. It's personalized medicine is we look at the whole person and go, let's, let's see where we can start and where we need to go. It's not one size fits all.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it is, it is. I think people get kind of overwhelmed by all the information because they've got, you know, health fitness gurus, you tell them something they've got, you know, then they get bombarded from ads, you know, from pharmaceutical companies. And so they never really know who to trust. And I would imagine, and you can speak to it, that when people find a doctor who they, they know, kind of has their best interests in mind and they can develop a relationship with that doctor over years, that gives you more of a time, a timeframe to work with somebody, right. Rather than somebody comes in with high blood, but blood, excuse me, blood pressure, you prescribe them a pill and you know, you don't see them again until next year when they need to come back in for their heart medication. And so now you can, you can really kind of fine tune what knobs need to be turned on a person's body and their lifestyle in order to, to help them reach maximum potential.

Speaker 2:

Exactly. Yup. And I, it's, it's, it's just amazing what the body can do with the right information, the right nutrition, the right sleep, uh, the right exercise. Um, just activating the body. It's, it's amazing what the body can do. So I totally agree with that. I've had some people who just 10 pounds makes a difference of them needing a blood pressure pill or not just 10 pounds. So you think about that. It's, it's kinda crazy and some people will be like, I don't want to lose the weight, give me the pill. And other people are like, what do you mean I don't have to take medication? What are the things that I can do? So

Speaker 3:

you know, one of the things that, one of the things I think is really problematic with the medical industry and I'm a capitalist through and through or I love capitalism is great but, but the, the profit motive that a lot of a lot of different practitioners, uh, I think optimize for the, you know, they, they orient their practice around uh, profitability, right? That's why doctors can only spend 15 minutes with you cause they can in a lot more patients in that, in that system because they can bill insurance. Right. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I would imagine that's why it's only 15 minutes. Cause they've got, they have to operate more on volume.

Speaker 2:

Yes. If they are insurance-based for sure. And that was the biggest problem I had with insurance-based medicine is you had to see three to four patients in an hour in order to bill correctly in order to pay your overhead. And I didn't want that to be the driving factor for me.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. Yeah. And so just, you know, a quick anecdote story about my life, I, you know, I've got these lower back problems. I broke my back in, uh, in, uh, high school wrestling and they immediately wanted to do surgery. I said, no, they immediately, you know, they wanted to do all of these different things. I said, no, I'm not getting back surgery when I'm 17 years old. Like, that's not a good decision. My parents thankfully were behind me on that and it's been a problem for a long time. And I, I tried everything. I tried acupuncture, I tried heat and cold, I tried a chiropractor and all of those things. And then one day somebody sent me a video. Actually my business partner sent me a video about this exercise that I should be doing at the gym. Uh, these kind of like these reverse back extensions.

Speaker 3:

And I started incorporating that into my routine and it's, it's better, you know, because I made that, like that little lifestyle change. But I went to, I went to, I spent so much time and so much money and so much, you know, all of these things that for a problem that was solved from a YouTube video that just said, Hey, maybe you should try strengthening your lower back. That might solve your problems more on. And I did, you know, I, and I did and it changed everything. But you know, when, when that happens to somebody, it really kind of creates this, uh, this doubt and disbelief, you know, maybe the chiropractor wasn't telling me to go exercise my back because he wanted me to keep coming and get adjusted once a week and, you know, and that kind of, it, it just kind of leaves a bad taste in your mouth and a lot of ways. Yeah, yeah,

Speaker 2:

yeah. No, I agree. I think there are some that are definitely, um, more prone to that. The prophet, I love when people are like, are you sure you're charging me enough? I actually like that women that are like, are you sure I'm supposed to only pay this much? So I think I'm may. Hopefully I'm going in the right direction there. But, uh, unfortunately, um, I think that's one of the things that people are looking at and, and, and saying maybe, um, you know, doctors just want to keep you sick so that you're coming back secure system rather than the healthcare system. Right. And I think unfortunately, uh, insurance, like I, I know I have said insurance, but, um, the pharmaceutical industry is what I'm thinking of. I think they would prefer for you to have side effects from medication so that you will need another medication per se.

Speaker 2:

But I think we're going back, if we go back to that, the root thing, if you're teaming up with a great team of healthcare professionals, their goal is to get you functioning again and hopefully like not need the surgery or, or be able to, I don't know if I would tell you to go wrestle again, but if you were going to ski, keep you running or, or just keeping you active and not saying, Oh, you can't exercise anymore. You know, that would be the worst thing to say. Um, it'd be like, maybe we just have to find something else for you to do, but that's where you should have someone who wants you better, who wants to to, um, team up with you and go, okay, what are the things that we needed to change for you so that you have an active lifestyle again?

Speaker 3:

Yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, I like that approach. I mean your, your, your practice, right? You don't take insurance. It's private pay and there's a lot of, there's a lot of good incentives that come as a result of that relationship. You have to, you do have to provide a little bit more value other than a pill. Otherwise people are not going to keep coming back to you. They can go get, you know, they can go get the pill from their other doctor. And so you've got to perform and quite frankly, deliver a little bit more results than a lot of these other providers.

Speaker 2:

People want the time with me. If they're not getting the 30 minutes, 60 minutes or 90 minutes, they're like, what's, what makes you different then? So the fact that I can go through the whole problem list and tackle it and you don't feel like I've got my hand on the door waiting to exit as soon as possible. I mean, that's a huge difference there. Um, and, and it allows me to also have a better, uh, connection with you. We get to have an actual real conversation where you're not thinking, Oh, if I bring this up, is this going to be bad? Is this going to be good? Are they, you know, um, you can actually ask a question and we can sit there for 30 minutes and talk about it there. There's a big, there's a big value with that to actually getting all of your questions answered and, and, and not worried about, Oh, can I bring this up?

Speaker 3:

Yeah. That, that's, that's, that actually happened to me too. I told my doctor that I should something that I should not have told him and it went into my medical file and then I had all these problems with it and like I'm comfortable sharing that because this is good at like be careful what you tell your doctor which is, which is the lesson that I learned from that. And you know, I went in, I talked to him about something and then what am I file? And I had all these issues getting a life insurance because they looked at my medical file and they didn't want, they didn't like what they saw in there because I was open about, about this issue that I was having and, and they, they denied my life insurance because they, because my doctor put it in the file, you know, and it was, um, it was a very kind of eye opening moment for me.

Speaker 3:

It's why would I tell him why would I ever be truthful with my doctor again if that was going to happen? Yeah. Now everybody has access to my medical, my medical file and now it's cutting me off from other things, which I think is probably just going to get more and more pervasive. Right. More and more of our medical data is going to be available. Privacy is just almost completely gone at this point. And it's, it's interesting I think, I think I would've had a lot better experience had I had the opportunity to sit down with you and spend the 45 minutes with you and talk through the issue rather than a doctor just making a note and didn't solve the problem. But it did go in my medical file. Right. And it follows me around forever. Now,

Speaker 2:

well, and I don't know if I should say this or not, but I'll, I'll actually have patients say, can we talk about this off the record? You know, I'm sure people do in law and, and you know what, sometimes we have to have those conversations and not put them in the record because we don't know if, let's say I had someone who's trying to do some genetic testing, I don't want to put in there that they're doing this for certain things because I don't know if it's going to be positive or negative and what we're going to do with that. So I would agree with that. You've got. And that's having, you know, those are my patients having a great relationship where we can talk through this first and then we decide what, how do we document this? Because I do want adequate, um, and correct, uh, documentation, but there are some things that I don't need a, let's say an insurance company reading about yet. It's just, it's none of their business.

Speaker 3:

Right. Well, and they don't know the context of what happened and they don't know anything else, but they, they don't, they, they see something that they don't like and that, that triggers a whole, you know,

Speaker 2:

yeah. I've been skydiving once. I'm not allowed to say that at all for life insurance. Right. I'm never going to do it again. It was something I wanted, but if I would have put that down initially, I mean that could say, Oh, you don't get any life insurance now. Right. Cause you're a maniac. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

Taking maniac and it's, yeah. That, that, that, like you said, that's a whole different conversation. Um, that, that really impacts a lot of people. But I, I do like the idea that people are, are taking more, uh, more of a proactive approach in their own health and, and really investing the time to get well, what, what's kind of the process then of working with you? So like if a new patient comes in and they say, I need a new doctor, do they cut? Do they come for that purpose? Do they come because they've got a sore throat? Are they just people who want to kind of level up their lives? What does that, what does that experience like at your office?

Speaker 2:

So when they initially called my office, we are, we asked them, you know, questions about, you know, what are they looking for? Um, and with our website it's kinda nice cause some people call directly and say, you know, I'm interested in personalized medicine. What does it look like? And we can talk to them about that. Some of them are going to be coming in and they don't have any health concerns. But what they want is to team up with a physician who can keep them healthy and talk about things to um, keep them healthy and out of the doctor's office. And so we do have a plan for them where, um, they pay up front and they can, you know, um, then see me as needed. I also have others who want to come and see me monthly and they can sign up for that monthly, um, service where we sit down.

Speaker 2:

And there are certain things that I will go over every month, uh, you know, depending on their family history or their lifestyle or what they've been through. You know, that's part of the initial visit with me is I'm kind of putting together a plan on, you know, what are some of the things that we need to, we need to tackle and look through. Uh, I also have patients who are coming specifically for weight loss and they want comprehensive medical weight loss. And I have a program, uh, set up for them as well as those who have lost weight with me and want to continue weight with me, uh, because they know that the accountability of seeing me monthly or every other week has kept their, their weight off and they're learning how to be more active and they're like, there's something, there's something about this relationship here. I, I'm, I'm, I'm keeping my weight off and I'm off medications and I'm more active. What do I do next? So, uh, you know, and then, then it complicated at all. I do some medical aesthetics too. So I've got patients who are like, Oh, I heard that you did my friend's Botox. Can I come and do Botox with you too?

Speaker 3:

Do stuff. I didn't know what medical aesthetics was, but, okay.

Speaker 2:

Yup. So that's what those are. So I, it's, uh, I, I wear a couple of different hats and now I can wear them all under the same roof.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. Yeah. And I would imagine that people, you know, when you, when you're proactive about it, you don't have to be as reactive about it, right? Like, you're going to get the colds, you're gonna get the flus. But if you can have somebody who's looking at you when you're 40, and you're healthy and kind of helping you lay a proper foundation, then the benefits of that are probably incalculable.

Speaker 2:

Right. And you know what? I've actually had, I had someone who is heard about me while she was waiting in the ER and she thought, and she went in with not feeling great. And so she, she made it an appointment as a, as a post ER follow up. And we started our relationship that way. Um, my first week I had opened my practice and it was great with what we started to, to discuss what are things that we're gonna we're going to put into place now. So, um, and she just heard about me in the, in the waiting room in the ER, and I've had other people who have followed me for years and they're, and they're ready to just team up with me for primary care. And then those who are, you know, who have done weight loss medicine with me who want to just continue and then they're like, wait a minute. I always liked that whenever we order blood work, you would tell me other things to do. Can you be my primary care doctor now too? Can I do personalize medicine with you? So it's, it's definitely the one who's, who's ready to do more than just the, um, here's a pill and a prescription and see you later.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. And I think, I think more and more people are trending that way. People are, people are kind of tired of, of all of the healthcare stuff in general. Which actually leads me to my next question. I know, you know, it's probably a hard question to answer, but it's about costs, right? Because a lot of people there, they're kind of pigeonholed into the traditional medical system because of insurance. Everybody is freaked out about that, right? They got to have insurance because if something catastrophic happens, they're going to lose everything. So, yes, sure, the insurance serves a purpose, but then they're also tied into to those traditional providers who accept the, the, their insurance because even though it's a $15 copay or $25 copay, and for a lot of people, that's all they can afford or all that in their mind, they're willing to pay because it's been that long for so long, they don't really see how much, how little value they're getting out of that relationship. And so that's what they're used to

Speaker 1:

your private pay, right. So you don't accept insurance so people have to come out of pocket, which they're doing anyways. They don't know it, but you know, they have to come. They, uh, they physically, the act of giving you a debit card or credit card like is different than what they're used to. Yeah. Um, what are people, what should people be expecting in terms of budget to kind of work with somebody with U S specifically or somebody like you?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I'm going to say it just depends on their level of how, how, um, how much, how many times they want to come in to see me. I love that you talked about that because I have learned, um, this analogy and talked about it with a few people. Now it's like, uh, our car insurance, right? Our car insurance is in case our car gets totaled. It's not paying for us to go get a car wash and it go, um, get the oil changed and get new tires every so many thousand miles. Um, those are all things that we know we're going to have to do for our car to, to last. And so, um, for us to think that health care insurance is going to pay for all the little tiny things, it's not, eh, I like to think of healthcare as insurance as mostly like major medical, like what you're talking about.

Speaker 2:

Like if you need emergency surgery, if you, you know, if you, um, end up, let's say, God forbid with cancer and you're going to have to have a lot of treatments, we need to be in control and not do just what the insurance allows us to do. And a lot of patients, so far, they have really high deductibles. So I'm actually cheaper than what they ended up having to pay when they, the, the, we come down to the bottom line. Um, my labs might be cheaper than what they're paying for with, with insurance. So we talk about that. And I, I, I actually asked my patients, I'm like, call your insurance, see how much they're there. They aren't going to be covering, cause my plan might be cheaper than you actually using your insurance.

Speaker 1:

Right? Yeah. And people, people just don't realize it. You know, it's just kind of one of those things that, Oh, you have to have health insurance. It's like one of the, for every time we hire an employee, it's one of the first things. How's your health insurance, you know, they all want to know that. And I, a friend of mine, he, um, he actually owns redirect health, which is a big company that, that, uh, helps people provide or helps provide the actual healthcare. So he, he, he gave this great presentation and it changed the way I thought about it. But he said, people don't want health insurance. Everybody thinks they want health insurance. They don't, they want health care. And for most people, their initial thought is I get the health care by having health insurance. But what his company does is they work out all these different agreements and these different arrangements with all these different providers. And so he says, what, you know, what you would get is to say you do have that catastrophic event where you do have cancer, you do need these, you know, whatever you need to do to treat that. When you go through a traditional, you know, medical provider, they may bill you $100,000 for that treatment when really the cost of that through a regular normal doctor, maybe $5,000, you know, it's percent of what it was.

Speaker 3:

And, and that's what he does. That's his company, facilitates those relationships. And so they can, they can basically offer healthcare at, you know, a tiny fraction of the cost. But you are paying for it. You do have to, you do have to come out of pocket for it. And, um, I, I think it's great. I mean, I, I, a big part of my budget goes on my health and wellness. I mean, it's just what it is because it's my body. I got one of these things. It's the most, the most valuable asset that I have or own. And so I'm gonna I'm going to be proactive with it, but a lot of people, they just don't think that way.

Speaker 2:

No. And I'm, I'm hoping that changes. I, I, I'm seeking out patients who are like that, who have that, that mindset of I want, this is my one body that's got to get me through life. I got to make sure I take care of it. So it runs beautifully instead of me just putting the pieces together and hoping it gets me to the finish line.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. Can I ask you some questions about, about, uh, some of that, that anti-aging stuff? Yeah. I'm, I'm curious if you've heard of NAD plus NAD. Do you have any, do they have any thoughts on that? Do you?

Speaker 2:

Huh. And if you can get your body to, if you can get your body to, uh, produce it instead of having to kind of like supplement. So there's a big difference between activating your body versus supplementing your body. Yeah, it's huge. So NAD has is awesome. I, I'm kinda glad that you already know about anything.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I do actually. We're, we're, um, I'm, I'm going to be starting in, uh, relatively soon. It's expensive.

Speaker 2:

Well, let's talk something really good is not always expensive when you're thinking about if you put the little pieces of everything together. So, um, yeah, after this we'll, I'll make sure you're on it. You're taking a good one.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah. I see. Yeah, we'll see. It's, it's, it's curious, I am interested in a lot of that stuff because I think, you know, technology and, and kind of the pace of progress is just, it's just amazing. You know, what we're seeing and you touched on it like Neutrogena genomics and this idea that, you know, maybe we can have medication or, or nutrition plans that are specifically crafted for our body and for our DNA, for our genes. Is, is amazing.

Speaker 2:

It is. And you know, why does one drug work for somebody and doesn't work for somebody else? And I like that because now we're starting to one, do some genetic testing and see what kind of metabolizer you are and then that helps us choose a medication for you. Um, we're really big into the, uh, the microbiome. And so probiotics and some, uh, uh, pharmaceutical companies are putting probiotics with their medications cause they know that that's how the medication is going to work better. So it is, we, we're, our bodies are these living, breathing incredible organisms and, um, we have to have this balance and symbiosis with, um, bacteria and viruses and everything else. And so it does make a difference with, um, how, how we're eating and how we're sleeping and what we're doing. And so,

Speaker 1:

yeah. So the idea is that, is that these, these drugs and these different, they're, they're going to be at some point specifically generated for people who have a certain gene type. Yeah. That's pretty cool.

Speaker 2:

It is cool. And it'll be nice cause then you won't have to go through, is this going to work? You know, where you go on a drug for six months hoping it works and now you just wasted six months. Right.

Speaker 1:

Right. Well they, yeah, and you see that a lot with those, um, like antidepressants and antianxiety right. They have all these different varieties, some work for some people, some don't. Some people take them and they, they get worse, right? They, they commit suicide or something like that. And so it's, we're talking about life or death issues here. And if you can be, you know, hyper-targeted with, with those drugs. And I mean that's, that's pretty cool. How far off?

Speaker 2:

Oh, it's happening now. Really? [inaudible] yeah. On a, on a lower scale. It's, it's happening in and you brought up a psychiatric medication. That's really where it's starting so far with, because, uh, we want to know H what, what could work the quickest with someone who is suicidal, um, who is having their major depressive episode. So a lot of, uh, uh, psychiatrists are looking at that genetic testing already and picking medications that will, um, are, are best suited for their patients. What do you think about the, the

Speaker 1:

psychedelics? So those are, you know, those are, I'm hearing a lot more of that. So I was just at this conference and there was a guy in there, his name is dr Andrew Weil, while he's kind of the father of integrated medicine as well as what his title is, he owns a, or created the true food restaurants and all those things. I'm sure you know a lot about them, but a lot of people were asking him at this conference about those, those types of things about plant based nutrition and uh, Iowasca and you know, some, and I think, I think Colorado or one of the other States or California maybe is really close to sort of decriminalizing or legalizing a lot of the siliciden the stuff. Um, what are your thoughts on, on, on that development in medicine?

Speaker 2:

So I'm not an expert in that and I'm very cautious because I don't know exactly how everybody is going to react to them and I don't know who's going to be manufacturing them. So if we kind of bring it to what's legal right now, I think we were a little bit talking about, um, you know, marijuana, CBD, all of those, the problem is, is where is it manufactured and how is it, how is it looked at? So there's a difference between using CBD or the ER or the accounting Boyd, um, process versus using THC and marijuana. There's, it's such a gray zone that I, um, I would not want to pigeonhole anything I say or go down a specific road. I just, but I'm open to always learning and knowing what's out there. Um, and, and then going from there, the biggest thing is just the, the, for lack of a better word, the policing or how's it manufactured.

Speaker 2:

Because as you can see with even FDA approved medications, there could be, um, some that are not pure. They have carcinogenic properties to them because they were made in China or somewhere else. Same with over the counter supplements. How, you know, some reports are showing this, there was only 21% of them have the active ingredient in them. So when we come to the psychedelics, that even makes me even more worried is what are they going to also have in them? How are we going to make sure that we're just getting the active ingredient that we want to use for a specific disease or symptom.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I, and I agree with that and it's, it is tricky. I mean, you don't want to be taking something that some guy grew in his backyard. You don't know what the heck's going on with that. And I think a lot of it right now is currently kind of at that level of sophistication. But as with anything, you know, it's constantly evolving and if it does become decriminalized or even legalized, you know, then you're going to see sort of like we've what we've seen with marijuana, this flood of investment money coming in and I think a lot of those different manufacturing processes and those things are going to be tightened up and then we'll see, uh, really what the efficacy of it of they may be.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Yeah. But since you're kind of talking through some of that, I saw dr Andrew Weil and know a lot of people like to look and look at his programs and stuff. Uh, one of the ones that are popular right now is like dr Mike, Mark Hyman, um, with functional medicine and through the Cleveland clinic. And so those who are really trying to see what is out there and have good sources of information, that's another great source of listening to their podcasts and, and learning about, um, era, Vedic and integrative and functional and, and anti-aging, regenerative. All of those are going to be mainstream. Hopefully.

Speaker 1:

It's a wild, it's a wild field. There was another guy at the same conference, Peter Diamandis or something. He's a futurist type of type of thinking. Guys, I think he founded the X prize foundation, something like that and, and he, he made a claim, he said something, you know, if you're kind of, if you're born today, if you're alive today, the likelihood that you can live forever is not far off. You know, basically within the next 20 to 50 years or so. He's thinking a lot of the, a lot of the, the, the difficulty in identifying, you know, what, what is causing aging or reversing aging. A lot of that stuff should be salt like in the next 20 years is what he's saying.

Speaker 2:

I'd agree with that. We'll have a lot more information and be able to hone in on that where we can modify and hopefully even live longer. But if you're going to help me live longer, I'm going to want to make sure that I am an active, I'm not just like sitting in a wheelchair and yes, you're keeping me alive. I'm like, yeah. I'm like, no, I don't want to be running around like it's still so,

Speaker 1:

yeah. Well, and even, you know, even today, even if you're 40 years old and you're not living well that's a, that's a tragedy in my mind. That's a really, that's a really sad way to go about it. Cause you know, you've got one body, you may come back in another one, you know, depending on what your philosophical viewpoint is on the world. But you, you should take good care of yourself, which is actually a great segue and kind of my final for you is it's 2020 it's January 3rd and a lot of people are thinking about their health and wellness. It's, you know, it's kind of the biggest thing that people want to change when they transition from year to year. How do I be more healthy? Um, what are your, what's kind of a good framework for people? What would you, what is some advice from an integrative medical doctor that, that maybe you want to leave people with?

Speaker 2:

Well, I would say my, my, what I want to leave people with right now is because of me doing so much weight loss medicine and through that is what are small changes that you can do. Don't just try to do everything all at once because you're more likely to fail and get frustrated with yourself. So pick the small things. If it's one less coffee, if it's one less, you know, a soda, if it's eating out a little bit less, if it's trying to get a little bit more sleep, um, find something that you like to do. The small changes they add up to big changes. So don't try to bite off more than you can chew. You know, in this January month where most people are like, Oh, I'm so gung ho and then you know, middle of the month they're like, Oh, I'll try it next year. It's like, no, pick the small things that you can do.

Speaker 2:

Maybe find a practitioner that you can team up with and you can make a plan of action where you can look at what are some of the small things that I can do that are going to start to add up. Um, and I, I'm a little OCD. I love putting things in a list and being able to check them off. So put them as, as a step wise and maybe make the huge list first, but then flip over the page and put just two things that you could do, you could do in this week instead of trying to bite off the entire little manageable bites. Yeah. Cause they'll add up.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. Yeah. Well that's a great takeaway. Be more intentional about your health. Where, so let's say people do, you know this one of the podcasts and they do want to connect with you. Maybe they want to, you know, have a visit or consultation or a meeting with you. What are the best places for them to connect with you?

Speaker 2:

So they can definitely go to our website and@activated.health and they can click on there for more information or send us, send me an email there. Um, they can go through Facebook as well. I've got a Facebook page. Um, and they can just give us a, a call and talk to my consultant and find out if we, uh, if it's a good fit for them.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I and I and I absolutely think they should. You're obviously very knowledgeable. You're passionate about it and I think you're doing it for the right reasons, right? You, you want to develop a relationship with your patients, you want to help people improve their lives and we could all use help in that regard. So, uh, dr melody road Dar Tay. So let me throw out your, your website and a couple of places for people to find you. It's activated.health so activated with the D. dot. Health is the website. You can also find her on Facebook, facebook.com/activated health wellness. All the information that you need is going to be on those two websites. Doctor. Thank you for coming on the show.

Speaker 2:

Thank you so much for having me. Appreciate it. The ruler

Speaker 4:

nation podcast is brought to you by the R and R law group. Arizona's premier criminal defense and personal injury law firm available at www dot RR law, a z.com or give us a call, four eight zero or zero zero one three.