Gruler Nation Podcast

Episode #75: Meditation and Zen Training with Jason Campbell

December 04, 2019
Gruler Nation Podcast
Episode #75: Meditation and Zen Training with Jason Campbell
Chapters
Gruler Nation Podcast
Episode #75: Meditation and Zen Training with Jason Campbell
Dec 04, 2019
Robert F. Gruler Jr., Esq.

Jason Campbell began meditation and Zen training through music when he was only a child. Today, he is a 7th degree black belt and co- founder of Zen Wellness. Jason’s unique perspective on health, wellness and spiritual growth comes from his lifelong study both of music and the ancient arts of Taoist health, medicine and enlightenment.  

 

Jason's efforts go towards combining eastern arts, wellness, mediation and music. He has released 11 albums, been #1 on Billboard and Amazon, and in the last 5 months has had five albums in the top 5 in the Billboard charts. Jason's music has opened meditation to thousands of people who have never done it before or who have tried meditation and have failed in their effort to simply sit still and clear the mind. 

 

To learn more about Jason Campbell and his meditation through music be sure to check him out on his websites at www.zenwellness.us and www.jasoncampbellmusic.net  

 

Please Like, Subscribe, and Comment below! 

  

#mediation #zen #music #blackbelt #zenwellness #health #medicine #enlightenment #clearmind #quiet #podcast #InspirationwithGrulerNation #inspire #gruler #inspiration #GrulerNation #GrulerNationPodcast #gnp #arizonapodcast #scottsdale #yesphx #phx  

 

The Gruler Nation Podcast is a show that focuses on conversations with interesting "Level 10" people passionate about changing the world with their work, relationships and ideas. The show is hosted by Robert Gruler, an attorney and founding partner of the R&R Law Group, a criminal defense law firm based in Scottsdale, Arizona focused on helping good people charged with crimes move forward with their lives.   

 

Interested in being on the show or have a guest recommendation? Email Robert directly at robert@rrlawaz.com or visit www.robgruler.com for more information.  

Show Notes Transcript

Jason Campbell began meditation and Zen training through music when he was only a child. Today, he is a 7th degree black belt and co- founder of Zen Wellness. Jason’s unique perspective on health, wellness and spiritual growth comes from his lifelong study both of music and the ancient arts of Taoist health, medicine and enlightenment.  

 

Jason's efforts go towards combining eastern arts, wellness, mediation and music. He has released 11 albums, been #1 on Billboard and Amazon, and in the last 5 months has had five albums in the top 5 in the Billboard charts. Jason's music has opened meditation to thousands of people who have never done it before or who have tried meditation and have failed in their effort to simply sit still and clear the mind. 

 

To learn more about Jason Campbell and his meditation through music be sure to check him out on his websites at www.zenwellness.us and www.jasoncampbellmusic.net  

 

Please Like, Subscribe, and Comment below! 

  

#mediation #zen #music #blackbelt #zenwellness #health #medicine #enlightenment #clearmind #quiet #podcast #InspirationwithGrulerNation #inspire #gruler #inspiration #GrulerNation #GrulerNationPodcast #gnp #arizonapodcast #scottsdale #yesphx #phx  

 

The Gruler Nation Podcast is a show that focuses on conversations with interesting "Level 10" people passionate about changing the world with their work, relationships and ideas. The show is hosted by Robert Gruler, an attorney and founding partner of the R&R Law Group, a criminal defense law firm based in Scottsdale, Arizona focused on helping good people charged with crimes move forward with their lives.   

 

Interested in being on the show or have a guest recommendation? Email Robert directly at robert@rrlawaz.com or visit www.robgruler.com for more information.  

Support the show (https://www.ericshouse.org/donate/)

Speaker 1:
0:01
This is episode 75 of the griller nation podcast. My name is Robert ruler joined today by my friend Jason Campbell. Jason Campbell is a very interesting guy. I'm super happy to talk to you today. Let me give the audience a little bit of a background on you. So you are a musician, you've got 11 albums, they've been number one on the billboard, number one on Amazon in the last five months. You've had five albums in the top five in the billboard charts and the music you create is very interesting because it helps people meditate. It helps people kind of get into a sense of calm and inner peace and it's something I got a lot of problems with. Obviously you and I have spoken a lot about that, but I would love to just start kind of at the top. You know, I know you're a seventh degree black belt, you're the co founder of Zen wellness. You do a lot of meditation and Zen training, but it sounds like this kind of started when you were a child. Yes. Can you tell us about that? How'd you get into this space? Cause it's kind of unique, a unique, unique career that you're in.
Speaker 2:
0:56
Well, you know, my original, and by the way, thanks for having me and congratulations on 75 episodes. Thank you. Uh, we really go back to at age eight, um, 40, almost 42 years ago. My next birthday is 50. Yeah. And I was at the piano, and I'll never forget this. My music teacher said to me, never ever listened to notes. Idiots listened to notes. Masters listen to the space or the silence in between the notes. And she said, when you listen to a note, your mind is cluttered and you hear nothing. When you focus on the silence or the space, the gap, then you don't have inner dialogue in your mind. Hears everything. Now, as an eight year old, I just said, okay. And I just did it. And we would play a chord or we'd play something and we'd listen and you'd listen to the chord dissolve into nothingness and you'd focus in the silence and then you'd play another one.
Speaker 2:
1:53
And I didn't really think that much of it. It was just a discipline. And it was a musical discipline and it wasn't till about a decade later than I was formally trained in Zahn in meditation and martial arts and the yoga, the chigong, the Tai Chi that I realized, Oh, wait a minute, this is what I've been doing for the last 10 years and I've, I've been doing this through music. And then as I went on, um, I did a lot of things like musically young. I went on to music school and, and I was deeply involved in all the dent Zen training in all of this and I was doing it together and I just made total sense to me that it was the same thing that music, you know, martial arts, yoga, chigong, the meditation, the personal cultivation, all the breathwork, it's all the same whether you're playing a guitar, swinging a sword, have a Baton, conducting an orchestra, singing, whatever it is. There's no difference.
Speaker 1:
2:45
Well, a lot of people, young people, you know, they're playing soccer and they're going to baseball games and you know, little league and those things. How did w, was this a parental thing? Your parents kind of helped you get into this space or how did that, did it evolve?
Speaker 2:
3:00
I think it evolved organically. Yeah. I mean, I was always interested in, I showed, I, I came from a musical family. I came from an artistic family and I, you know, I showed aptitude and music at a young age. So I, I was encouraged and I was trained. Uh, so I have no excuse. Yeah. I had really good teachers. I think I had good teacher karma as you know, as I, as I was growing up and I was just always interested in the, uh, you know, in the meditation and in the Zen, it all, it all made sense to me. But what also happened is, is, you know, the, the music took a detour and uh, you know, in my, like early twenties or, you know, I made a choice of, okay, so what career do I really want to focus on right now? Do you know, do I want to continue a career in music?
Speaker 2:
3:40
Do I want to go into the wellness and go into the personal development and make that my career, you know, and also raise a family. And I went into the personal development. I took about 17 years off, uh, writing music professionally. I still played on my own, but I didn't do any albums or anything. And it wasn't until about, uh, just under six years ago that I came back into it, I said, okay, you know, now I see everything so clearly what I need to do in music and in what the process is going to be in music. How long did it translate? Some of these old, you know, some of the ancient principles, I'm going to put them back in at the end of the day. Um, help people meditate. Yeah. And just be better. And you will use the music is the tool for that.
Speaker 1:
4:21
Can you, can you just give us kind of a primer on, on the benefits of meditation? Because I think this is kind of a popular thing that a lot of people think about. You know, they, they know, you know, there's a lot of the, a lot of apps now, there's a lot of technology now, a lot of the, you know, the high performance people like the, you know, the Tony Robbin, Anthony Robbins and those guys, you know, they're big proponents of that. You should meditate. You should take some time to, uh, kind of calm your mind down to a certain degree, but what, you know, what, what are some of the benefits or the rationales for doing it from, from what? From your perspective?
Speaker 2:
4:56
Okay, that's a great question. I'm glad you asked me that. And the analogy I like to make is if I have a snow globe and I didn't bring my snow, but I have a snow globe picture shaking a snow globe, the snuggle becomes turbid. Like you can't see anything through the snow globe. But if I put the snow globe down over a period of time, the turbidity settles and then we have clarity. And the analogy is that's the mental and emotional turbidity that we experience all day long. It's estimated we have between 60,000 and a hundred thousand thoughts per day. 99% of them are the same thought you had yesterday. So it's the skipped record analogy. Some of your listeners might have to Google that, but we just have the same thoughts. And so what that means is you don't need all the thoughts and what we do in meditation, there's a lot of different types of meditation.
Speaker 2:
5:49
I mean, in our organization we teach, you know, sitting, standing and moving meditation. And the easiest one to teach is the sitting meditation. Cause that's what everyone thinks of meditation. But there's other forms as well. So what we're really learning to do is to stop the incessant stream of thinking because there's always a voice in the head. No, no, no. So for example, like, you know, if you're, you're listening to this, there's a really good chance that as we're having this conversation, there's an inner dialogue commenting on the conversation. Oh, that's interesting. Oh that may, Oh wow. I never thought of that. Oh, I don't agree with that. Oh, whatever the blahblahblahblahblah is. So the question is, is can you turn that off and can you have an off switch where that settles? And you don't have that incessant stream of thinking. And when you do that, it's really, really powerful because in one way you tap into a level of creativity.
Speaker 2:
6:46
You change your brain chemistry, you change your body chemistry, you decrease a cortisol levels. That's the death hormone that comes from stress. You increase the dopamine, serotonin levels. Those are like the feelgood happy chemicals in the brain. And in many ways it's like a, a pharmaceutical prescription because when you go to a pharmacy and you get a pill, the drug is not in the pill. The pill tells your brain what drugs to produce. So I mean, there's a lot of things you can do to change brain chemistry. And I like to say it's, Hey, it's be your own pharmacist. And you know, there's no, no copay, no side effects, no waiting in line, no nothing. You just get all the good, uh, you know, the good chemistry.
Speaker 1:
7:27
That's, yeah. I mean that's something that a lot of people I think kind of blows their mind. You know, people are used to sort of the, the put something in, get something out, go take a pill and you'll get this benefit. And the idea that that you can do some of this stuff internally is, is foreign to a lot of people, they're looking for solutions that are at outside of their body because that's what their, you know, their upbringing tells them. That's just how they're conditioned. And so this idea that you can get into a mental state and actually cause physical changes in your body and Cosmo, you know, this, this, this reformation throughout your being is, is, is fascinating. When I, when we first met, one of the most interesting things that I, that I had had learned about, about what it is you do is, is the music that you create that's five minutes, right? Can you tell us, can you walk us through that? And if you know any, either one of these is applicable. Let's talk to the room.
Speaker 2:
8:24
Okay. So here, one of the things we did with the music is, okay, let's put, let's make it really practical. And you know, we put teachings in the music. So there's, you know, what's called a five element teaching and you know, matter, energy, consciousness. I can explain that later. But the most simple thing is, is in most of the albums, the songs are five minutes long. The tempo is one beat per second. And what that does is that starts to regulate the heart. And there's a bell every four. Yeah. And what you do, it's, it's so simple. So we've helped so many people that can't meditate or tried to meditate and fail or think, okay, I should meditate, but what's all this going on? Everyone's talking about meditation. I just sit there and I'm quiet and I'm thinking, what the hell am I doing here? What's going on? What's supposed to be happening? I mean, you know, that's probably half the people that start to meditate, how to have that experience.
Speaker 1:
9:17
It is very difficult. I mean, and you and I have had a lot of conversations about this. You know, I have a very tough time. Like I need like a personal coach, somebody to sit me down and say you're doing it. You know, kind of that accountability. And it seemed like this big, uh, this big perplexing problem. But what I met you, the music that you create, it's very bite-sized. It's very, uh, sort of digestible and I'm sorry to interrupt you, but okay. So I just wanted the audience to be clear that this came up because of my own roadblocks in, in getting in touch with the potentials of meditation. And then you showed me the solution.
Speaker 2:
9:54
Well, and if I said to you, okay, Robert, I want, let's start a meditation practice. You're going to do an hour in the morning and an hour a night, you're not going to do it. No, no. Now, 20 years ago it was actually much easier to teach that and we, we got much greater compliance and saying that, Hey, an hour, morning, hour at night, but nowadays, forget it. Uh, I know Microsoft did a study a couple of years ago of the last 10 years, the average attention span has gone from 12 seconds to eight seconds. And a goldfish has an attention span of nine seconds. And it's obviously the technology that's made the attention span go, go down. And it's easy to feel like you don't have time for stuff. And that's, I mean, that's not true. We still have the same 24 hours, but technology is kind of scrambled the brain in that way.
Speaker 2:
10:42
But so however, if I say, Hey, let's do five minutes. Yeah, okay, everybody can do five minutes. There's no excuse not to do five minutes because you screw around looking at, you know, Facebook or whatever on your phone or YouTube or something for five minutes. So everybody has that. So if you just take one song, close your eyes, make your body still. When you hear the bell, breathe in, you hear it again, breathe out just for five minutes. And if you do nothing else, after about seven days, you'll start to feel the benefit. And what are some of the benefits? Well, one is the little dollop of space between action and reaction because most people go on the course of the day, you get pulled in many different directions, and in any course of a day, there's things that don't go as planned. You have an expectation and your expectation is not met for whatever reason, and then there's a reaction to that. And a lot of times the first knee jerk reaction is not necessarily your best reaction. And if there's a little bit of space between action and reaction, it changes everything. I could change as your, your feeling it changes your emotional state, it changes the way you deal with other people.
Speaker 1:
12:00
Yeah. And there was a fancy phrase, right? It's, it's respond, don't react or something like that. Right. And that's kind of what you're training people to do. Exactly. Yeah. Take, take five minutes, process your thoughts and then respond. You had an analogy when we first spoke about, I think it was a, a cat and a whole, yes. Can you tell us that or something like that? Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:
12:22
So the first thing, Hey, sit down and shut up and breathe for five minutes and make your body still. That's enough. Now we want to get a little bit more detailed. There are different exercises we can do to learn, to stop thinking and to like, how do you shut off off the mind? Well, the first thing we have to realize is that you are not your thoughts. The thoughts just go blahblahblahblahblah. They're just, it's stream of consciousness. And so if you're not your thoughts, well what are you? Well we could say you're the observer watching your thoughts and even that little point there separates you from your thoughts. And so then we say, okay, let's build the muscle of watching your thoughts. And so close your eyes, you know, make your body still breathe to the bell. And then you can say to yourself, I wonder what thought I'm going to have next.
Speaker 2:
13:14
And then the analogy, it's like a cat looking at a mouse hole and you just stare. And then eventually a thought's going to come out. That'd be the mouse coming out of the hole. And then okay, thought comes out. Let it go. Then you say, I wonder what thoughts I'm going to have next. And when you do this enough, you'll have different days. Some days there's a lot of mice running out of that hole, you know, and it w it's a flood and it doesn't stop and that's okay. Yeah. And then some days you then you'll have a moment where there's nothing and you're just staring in yourself still. And when you tap into that moment, that's when you get the reaction, that chemical reaction, the reaction of stillness. Uh, and it's really amazing.
Speaker 1:
13:55
It is amazing. When we first spoke, we met maybe two months ago there, there was something pretty profound that you had said. It was, it was this idea that we are not our, kind of what you said here, we are not our thoughts. We were talking about when people have feelings that kind of flood over them, anxiety or fear or um, you know, panic or whatever's kind of rushing through you. Most people will identify and say, I am horrified. I am scared. I am angry. I am furious. You know? And the way you just phrased it was, was beautiful and you just, you kind of said no, you're, you're feeling that right now, but you're not those things. I'll let you explain it.
Speaker 2:
14:37
Well, and let's even back up a step. The word human being, there's a great teaching in it because we're two parts where the human part and where the being part now, the human part, everyone is different from, you know, when you're a child, the human part constantly changes. Actually every seven years, every cell in your body regenerates. So, so there's not one cell on you that's the same from seven years. So the humans constantly changing, but the being part is the same. It's like you're still the same eight year old observer as the being and, and that's what watches the thoughts. So when we say watching your thoughts, it's your, there's the separation of you and your thoughts. Now let's take that to the emotions. Cause you can say I am angry, but no you're not. You might have anger, energy running through you. And that creates the little dollop of space between you and anger.
Speaker 2:
15:28
And it's really profound. You don't identify with the anger and then you can ah, take a little deep breath. It gives you clarity of thought. I mean, you can even take that further. You can say, you know, somebody says, Oh, it's my car or it's my house. Well, okay, I get it. You're a lawyer. Legally. Yes it is your car from the legal viewpoint, your house. But really it's the house you live in. It's the car you drive. Is it yours? Because is there's this thing called impermanence. And at some point you in that car, you in that house are going to part ways. You could even say it's, you know, it's not my shirt, it's the shirt I wear. Right? I mean, you can take that as far as you want to take it, but it separates you and the object. And I find it allows you to enjoy it in it. When you say, you know, I have an anger energy running through you or through me, it's not as serious. Not at all. It's just an energy.
Speaker 1:
16:20
Yeah. And, and it's almost, it's almost like you have a little bit more control over that. Or at least the understanding that it's going to be fleeting. You know, this is not something that's permanent. You just, and after we met, I had one of those moments and I thought, I thought, man, I'm so pissed off right now. And I thought, well no, I just have, I just have a lot of angry energy running stuff, energy running, pissed off, energy running through me. And you know what, just that, just thinking that like call me down a little bit, you know, because you get a little bit more self aware, you can say, okay, all right. And, and it kind of sounds a little ridiculous also, you know, I have a bunch of pissed off energy running through me and I just went, okay, you know, and then you can kind of think about it, I think a little bit more objectively. You kind of can step back. Like you said, you're kind of an observer watching yourself, you're kind of, it's kind of, it was a weird kind of out of body experience for me. Just thinking through that
Speaker 2:
17:12
and, and, and we, we call it, that's part of emotional mastery. And what emotional mastery is not, is trying to control emotions or not having emotions or you know, Oh, I shouldn't be upset, so I'm not going to be upset. Well, nonsense, if you have upset energy running through you, you can't just rationalize it away. That's not possible. But it's an energy in, you could redirect it and you can even transmute it because, uh, there's this concept that we teach, it's matter, energy and consciousness of what we're made up of. And the analogy I like to use as H two O you say H two O usually think water. But really we have solid liquid in vapor and the solid is the matter. That's what we can see, feel. That's the body. The energy is literally the bio electric energy. It's the breath, it's the emotion because you can't like touch and feel emotion.
Speaker 2:
18:05
Uh, but then there's also consciousness or spirit or whatever word we wanna use for that. And so we're made up of these, these three. And so the emotion and energy that runs through you is exactly that. And it's constantly changing because see, it's impossible to be happy. If you are happy all the time, you'd never be happy. You actually need a little bit of its opposite to create happiness. It's like if everything were blue, it would no longer be blue. Right? So you need contrast. So you actually need a little dollop of the dark emotions to create the happy emotion. So to create the high emotion. So even the next time you have a little whatever dark emotion it is, you know, Oh I have this running through me. You take a deep breath and actually, you know what? I'm kind of planting the seeds for happiness right now. I need a little bit of this to create happiness.
Speaker 1:
18:56
Yeah. Right. You need the contrast is the right word, I think because otherwise things aren't just are, right. If, if you're, like you said, if everything's blue then nothing's blue because that's just the way that it is. Right? So when you can take a step back and say, these are my emotions now and then, and then probably also do the same thing. I haven't, I haven't thought about that. But when I'm very happy also state, you know, take a step back and say I'm feeling emotions,
Speaker 2:
19:21
same thing. I have happy energy running through me. And then it's, it's all fleeting, right? And so you just enjoy it when it runs through you. Hey, whatever gives you joy, take it. Ah, breathe it in and, and feel it. Cause joy is, joy is a wonderful thing and it's, it's fleeting. It's like, uh, the weather, right? All the emotions, they just, they come and they go and they, it, it's free flow. It just flows through.
Speaker 1:
19:42
So walk me through kind of what you do. So, you know, I know you do coaching. I know you, you're a musician, you create the music. Um, you're, you're, you know, you're running a business, you know, kind of doing, I think, uh, training other people on how to use your methodology. What, what is, what does a day in the life of Jason Kim?
Speaker 2:
20:01
Uh, I do a lot of different things and, and so ultimately, like, like all paths, you know, every, everything that we do in Zen wellness, whether it's the music, uh, I mean, we, we do, you know, we do mentoring, we have online programs, we do retreats and seminars. We actually, we even have bricks and mortar, um, businesses we teach and certify instructors. Um, I'm deepen music production right now. I think you'd mentioned earlier, I've had last five months, have had five albums, another one coming out next month in December. And then I've one for January 10th as well, so seven and I'm working on a, on a February release, uh, right now. And so, um, so we do a lot of different things, but it's really one thing and it's the one thing is the, like the evolution of consciousness or I like to say raising vibrational frequency.
Speaker 2:
20:57
That might sound a little woo woo. But it's basically like ascending spirit and making everyone better. You know, starting with myself, you gotta start with yourself and then work outwards. Uh, and so what does a day in my life, uh, look like? Well, I'll tell you this, you know what, it doesn't look like it's not highly scheduled. I have big blocks of space that I like to leave in my schedule. And that's in, that's very deliberate. I mean, uh, we have moments when we're doing a seminar or we have a training or seven days or something like that, that it's, you know, we roll up the sleeves and it's knee deep. Um, but I find I function better when I have space in my day. I'm more creative when I do that. But in the morning, like I work with a lot of our coaching clients, you know, we have, we do online programs and we have zoom programs and, um, you know, tele teachings and we make video and you know, there's content that we do.
Speaker 2:
21:48
So usually the morning times are, or with teaching. Um, and then I'll usually have space. I mean, well, so I have kids, so they're a little older, but I have no space in my life. And then what I usually do in the music production, uh, it's usually late night or early morning because usually when I do the music, I find a really super creative and say, I don't have time to do everything that I want to do in a day. So I'll, I'll write music in my sleep and then I wake up and I do it. That's a little, a little, a little trick. Yeah, that's, that's really impressive. So it's kind of, is it like a lucid dreaming type of thing or are you programming before you lay down and go to sleep and then coming up with an answer? Yeah, that's exactly right. It's like the, um, there's so much you can do in the subconscious mind if we have, you know, you have 60,000 to 100,000 thoughts a day in most of the same thoughts you had, you had yesterday.
Speaker 2:
22:38
Well, what a waste of space, right? And so what you can do, it's kind of like the analogy of, of the subconscious mind is like fertile soil and fertile soil doesn't care what you plant in it. You can plant an Oak tree or poison Ivy, it doesn't matter. It's going to grow, grow, whatever you plant and how do you plant the seed? You ask a question and that's also something like you can do this in a meditation. If you have something in your mind that you're really like a like a problem, something that you just, you just can't solve and you're thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking well sometimes you'll get a better answer by not thinking about it and you can just ask the question. You can say something to the effect of, okay, what's the best, the most benevolent solution for blah, blah, blah, whatever the blah blah, blah is, and then just stop thinking and go and put on the song and breathe.
Speaker 2:
23:27
Close your eyes and breathe. Or sometimes do something physical. Go for a walk, go to the gym, go do something. Go for a swim. Water's real good for that. [inaudible] just get out of your head, stop the incessant stream of thinking. And if you plant the seed, sometimes the answer just shows up. It comes. You forced to, like, you try to work too hard for something and it doesn't work. Um, and so this has just been years and years of, of, of practicing, of, of this technique, you know, so I can, uh, you know, kind of ask myself a question for some of the composition and the music and then I'll go to sleep and then I'll wake up at five in the morning and I'll record and I'll, I'll have it. It just all comes out, usually comes out beautifully.
Speaker 1:
24:08
Yeah, it's really impressive. I mean, five albums in five months, you've got several more on the way. It's, it's kind of mind blowing to me, or at least somebody who it's my boy to anything. I mean, it doesn't matter what you're doing. That is a ton of content. That's a ton of material. So I was just curious about how you get that inspiration and, and how that works for somebody to be so prolific, but also, uh, you know, it's not, it's not just kind of musical vomit that's coming out. Th this is really good stuff because it's, it's at the top of, you know, all these charts and everything's, it's really impressive.
Speaker 2:
24:42
Well, and I, so I like to say never be busy. Bees and beavers are busy and busy is a state of mind. No, I'm never busy. It's like you want to be in the moment and okay, so what if you have a day with a full schedule, it's still now and whatever you're doing now, you give that your full attention now and then at a different, now you give that your full attention. So, Oh, I'm so busy. Oh, I have so much to do. Oh [inaudible] you're just looping thoughts that aren't going to help you. So I mean again, I have, you have that you have back to back to back to back. Okay. But it's still now and if you can just stay in this moment, full attention on now, then at the end of the day that you have a day that's highly scheduled, note how I didn't say busy. You feel okay? You feel good. You're not all blown out.
Speaker 1:
25:26
Yeah. It's just a different paradigm. It's a different way to look at your day. I mean, most people look up, wake up, they look at their schedule and they go, Oh my gosh, I got so much stuff to do today. You know, it's ramen to be running around all day. And then at the end of the day they come home and they're exhausted and you know, they pour themselves a drink and go to bed and wake up and do it again.
Speaker 2:
25:43
Yeah. Yeah. And that's exhausting. It is. It's a, it's a tough way to go through life. Yeah, it's a tough way because you're, you're so, um, there's no space, there's no separation and, and again, busy, you know, lots hot, lots of scheduled empty schedule. It's still now. Yeah.
Speaker 1:
26:01
Walk me through some of this stuff. All right, so you brought a couple, couple albums. So a seven chakras.
Speaker 2:
26:06
Yeah. Okay. Well, you know what the, the, the one to start with, I think, let me, ah, here, I'll show you. It's not on the CDL me pointed this one. I'll show you the one, the one to start with for meditation is this one, the a, it's the five elements of ohm. Shanti [inaudible]. Okay. Is a real good one. And it's everywhere. You can, I mean you can go to the website, you can have it, but it's this, this album's everywhere and all the songs are five minutes and it's the same thing. And you just listen to the bell and you just bell and you just breathe, breathe into the bell. There's another teaching that I put in all the music. What I do is I take, I'm kind of like a translator. I take some of the, you know, spiritual and medical and wellness texts and I translate and I put them into music in the, in there's this concept is, you know, many thousand year old concept called five elements.
Speaker 2:
26:56
And when we think elements, we sometimes think like periodic table. It's not that an element might be a deceiving word. It's a repeating pattern of five. And so the ancients through observation, meditation and contemplation looked around and said, wow, everything just goes in fives. Look at your hand. Hey, what is it? What does nature tell us to count activists count and five, they used it, wood, fire, earth, metal, water. But it's not literal wood, literal fire. It's metaphor. So we could say springtime, early summer, late summer, fall, winter, um, we could say, uh, like would, would be germinating fires. Flowering earth is fruiting, metal is falling in waters rotting. Ah, it's just a simple pattern. And medicine, all of Eastern and Oriental medicine is based on that because within these there's different organs, there's different emotions. Wood is anger, fire is shock. Earth is um, worry. Uh, metal is grief and water is fear.
Speaker 2:
27:53
And then there's colors, you know, green, red, yellow, uh, silver and white and blue and black. And it just cycles. I mean, I could go on and on. There's big giant charts, five element charts of the same thing that just repeats over and over again. And it's really brilliant. I mean there's, you know, there's different organs that are associated with it. If you ever go into an acupuncturist, that's the whole system is based on that. And then based on the relationships between the five and in our Zen wellness organization, our entire like methodology is based on that and we even take a seasonal approach. Like there's two seasonal approaches that we look at. One is what phase of life are you in? Because training for a 60 year old is different than training for a 25 year old cause you're in a different phase and we say age, you know zero to eight is the springtime or the wood element.
Speaker 2:
28:47
That's everything is new, new, new eight to 33 we call that the fire or early summer. That's look at me what I'm going to be in. You and I had a conversation about this. Usually most people go through big life changes and like that kind of early thirties 32 35 and I did big time since you're going through a season change and then you go into the earth season which is 33 to 58 and that's a lot of your like realization and that's also just a lot of most people. That's when you raise a family or a lot of your career work. And that's, that's, that's what you do there. Then at 58 to 83 is the fall. It's the harvest and it's the metal element. And one thing you want to really start to do late fifties is it's metal. So you want to cut away all things that don't serve you.
Speaker 2:
29:34
You don't want to be held, like held down and things start to fall. People start to fall, your skin falls, your organs fall. I mean, things fall in that season. And then 83 to 108 we call that winter or water element. And ultimately that's preparation for death in all eternity because we're all going to be dead longer than we're going to be alive. Right? And there's a preparation for that. And I can remember one Zen master I trained with many years ago, he would always say to me, now what? Don't worry about being at one with the universe right now. You have death and all of Aternity to be at one with the universe. Enjoy your separateness, right? And you know, and enjoy that. So, okay, so the first thing we look at is what season of life are you in? You know, cause it's a different, different training, uh, and then what season of the year. And we have, you know, spring, early, summer, late summer, fall in winter, and you harmonize with the seasons around you. So the way we do the training in the winter is different than the springtime because it's a different vibrational frequency, literally, like different organs are at high tide. That is wild.
Speaker 1:
30:36
That's wild. And so the music you're saying, how do people find out where they need to be? In other words?
Speaker 2:
30:44
Uh, well, you know what thing, we have a bunch of material on our website. You can go to like the, the Zen wellness.us and there's a bunch of things you can do and we'll send you a bunch of material they can, they can opt in, uh, for that. So, so we have a whole, like, we have a whole system, we have a whole intake process, uh, that we, that we do with that. And so what we do in the music, like uh, what the albums, you know, there's a wood song, a fire song or a song, little song, water song. Okay. And they all vibrate with that frequency. You know, would some would songs tend to sprout and go up? Fire is like a flame. Earth is sweet and flat. So the melodies are sweet and flat. The earth songs are always the prettiest on all the albums cause they're the sweetest.
Speaker 2:
31:24
The metal cuts, sometimes a little bit of grief in the metal and then the water music flows. And so what I do is that I put it in the music. So if you just listen to the music and if you don't even understand any of this, subconsciously you start to understand this pattern of the five and this just repeating pattern. And it's a very old pattern of, of, of nature. That's why we tend to do things in five. We use a decimal system. We have 10 fingers, you know, so we have, it's five times two.
Speaker 1:
31:53
Yeah. I mean it's, it's, it's very interesting stuff. I don't even really know what to, what to say about it because my mind starts spinning. You know, I start, it's, it's almost the opposite of everything else that you're grown up accustomed to in a lot of ways. I mean, you're S you know, specially trained in this, in this field and you know that. But for, you know, for most people their day is very kind of surface level. It's very topical. They're not doing a lot of self reflection or you know, kind of diving into who they are or thinking about energy levels or putting their life in context of, you know, those, those five seasons that you talked about. It's more about, you know, self-gratification, what, how can I get what I want now I'm hungry now I want, you know, this person to text me back. I want to, you know, I want that promotion, but they're not putting it in context. So there is sort of this lack of self awareness, which, which, which is confusing to people. Yeah.
Speaker 2:
32:48
Yeah. A lot of it is survival and just survival and, and that's okay. That is what it is. Uh, but ultimately it's hard to feel happy in food feel fulfilled if you're just at a survival level.
Speaker 1:
33:03
Right, right. And it feels like, I mean, just anecdotally, you know, from what we do, so, you know, we do criminal defense law and we see, you know, people are getting, are still getting in trouble. Uh, you know, the drug abuse rates I think are going up across the board. People are becoming more and more suicidal across the board. People are shooting more people, you know, it's just things kind of just feel like people are disconnected from themselves. And this has kind of been a recurring theme of this podcast is we're talking to people and we're trying to identify what's, what's wrong with society. And a lot of it I think has to do with people's a lack of connection, a lack of meaning, a lack of self worth, a lack of understanding about a person's own humanity. And that is, is probably causing a lot of a lot of those, those symptoms as well as a lot of health problems and, and those things. So you're, you're kind of combating that.
Speaker 2:
33:56
Yeah. And you know, and I would use the word, uh, evolving it. Sure. You know, um, and so, you know, it's like the brighter the light, the darker the shadow. I mean, because in one way there's this like worldwide awakening and there's all this information and there's this, this spiritual uplifting bar, you know, the greater the light we have this dark side that goes, that goes underneath. And I was taught something, you know, many years ago I had a, again, it was a Zen master taught me something really interesting. He said,
Speaker 3:
34:28
[inaudible].
Speaker 2:
34:28
He said, okay, guess what? There's only one problem in the universe. I said, really? Only one. He says, yeah, there's just one problem. And he says, what do you think that is? I said, ah, I don't know. I think of a lot of problems in the universe. He said, no, no, no. There's only one problem. You know what the problem is? I said, what? He goes, it's you, you're the problem. I said, well, what do you mean? He goes, no. He says, everything else is perfect. The only from your viewpoint, it's only a problem because you think it's a problem. And so he said, no, the world is perfect and in this actually can get a lot of people upset here. So just go with me until the end. Okay. This is a spiritual viewpoint. You, you, you start with the viewpoint of, Hey, the earth is perfect.
Speaker 2:
35:08
The, the, the politics are perfect. The corruption is perfect. The, all the dark and all what we would all agree on, like all these horrible things. No, no, no. That's perfect. The only problem is your problem with it. Yeah. And so could, when you can flip that and say, no, okay, guess what? I don't have a problem with it. It is what it is. And I can like emotionally or spiritually allow or accept it, then it's much easier to change. And if you come at it with this fighting combat of, you know, combative energy, well, in one way you strengthen it, you strengthen the opposite, you know, that's why it's, it's going to, war is tough. You know, it's like if you have a, a war on cancer is a very tough thing to, to work because the moment you have a war, you strengthen the, the opposite side, right?
Speaker 2:
35:56
If you can say, Oh no, wait a minute, let's peacefully coexist with cancer. What peacefully coexist with cancer? I can't do that. Well, no, let's take another approach to it because see what happens is that we have all these toxins, pathogens can't, whatever it is, is trying to come into our body. Yeah, okay. Therefore we have an immune system that like if they weren't, we wouldn't have an immune system. The immune system is what makes us exist. So if we didn't have an immune system, we couldn't exist. So in one way it's like we say, wait a minute, all these things trying to come in to my body, all these things trying to kill me. You're actually my best friend cause you create me. Yeah. Huh. Okay, well then is there a way we could peacefully coexist but wait a minute. Peacefully coexist. You stay over there. I said, no, no, you can't come in here.
Speaker 2:
36:42
It doesn't, there's no vacancy. Not that type of peacefully coexist, but it's a different like viewpoint of, of, of doing it. And I don't mean it at all. I mean, you know, Hey, a lot of these things are problems and when you have problems and everyone has problems and you know, in my world I have things that I deal with and I have family things that I deal with and there's all types of stuff, stuff that happens. So I say that not to, um, you know, not take any of it very seriously and say, Oh, it's just a simple solution. But that is just a little like mental shift you can make and it drops that combative, you know, strengthen the other side through combat.
Speaker 1:
37:20
Right. And yeah, you don't want the perception to be that you're being flippant about these things. Yeah, those are problems. We're going to acknowledge that. I think one of the benefits of what you're, the approach that you're describing is it's very easy for people to be consumed about, about those issues that are maybe just a part of the way the universe is. Right. So, you know, there are people all over the place, especially with politics, you know, 2020s coming up, we're going to have everybody running for office and elections and people are like vitriolic foaming at the mouth over this stuff. Right? And when you get into that state and you know there's really not a lot that a lot of people can do about it. The average everyday person who's just kind of living their life, they get one vote and that's it. That's about all you can do. You can convince your, you know, your close friends and family to make a, you know, to vote one way or the other. But is that going to change the election? Probably not yet. They'll still be so consumed with the process and there that that sort of negative energy that vitriol can kind of consume them and drag their, their energy into, into that dark shadow like you're talking about.
Speaker 2:
38:31
You know, a lot of that is a choice of just what do you want to focus on, right. You know, and if that's what you need to focus on and you'd be, have to go dark. And if you have to just really feel okay, then that's okay. I mean, I'm okay with it. Yeah. And I don't have a problem with it. I don't know if it's maybe the healthiest thing for you, but, but that's okay. But then if you say, well, okay, do I really need to consume all that psychic energy with all the crazy insane stuff that's going on right now? Right? I mean, you don't have to follow it and you know, are you influencing it by following it? I mean, I know. How much influence do you have? I don't have influence on what goes on in Washington DC. Right? Okay. Every couple of years I get a vote. Right. But that's it. That's about it. So you just have to make a choice of how much of your psychic, mental, emotional, spiritual energy you want consumed with it. And then just, and then be honest about it, I would say. And if you want to consume your energy with it, then go for it and do it. But there's other things that you can do that maybe are a little bit healthier for you or might make you happier.
Speaker 1:
39:32
Yeah, certainly. I mean, I can, I can definitely relate to that. I get caught up in the politics and, and you know, relationships and in business businesses is a big area too, right? Where you can get really fired up over or what, you know, a competitor did or what, you know, a vendor did to you and you can really just wrap yourself around the axle just going crazy over this stuff. Even though there's nothing, there's really no substantive point or benefit for doing so. Right. Do you get pushback or have you, you know, you've, you've got a very prolific career and you've done a lot. What about, you know, what about people who come and say, maybe you're not engaged enough or this is too woo woo or there's no real, or it's all kind of hokey. Do you get those criticisms or respond to that stuff?
Speaker 2:
40:19
You know what I, I re Oh, well I don't get a whole lot of that, but every once in a while and, and I guess that's okay. Right? I mean, I don't really do much of a response to it. My response is more of a smile and a nod and, and so, and that's okay because Hey, if you need to be whatever your viewpoint of engaged is, and if that's what you, you need to do, then then go for it. You have my blessings, you have my support. Not that you need it, but you know, then Hey, awesome. But, uh, you know, you gotta do what works for you and what also gives you joy and gives you happy and gives you health unless you don't want those things. Because not everybody wants those things. Not everybody wants happiness. You can say you want happiness, but if you look at the behavior, no, you don't.
Speaker 1:
41:01
Totally true. And I know a lot of people in my life who are of that disposition, you know, they're constantly, it's almost like people get a few, get some,
Speaker 2:
41:09
well that's right. Yeah. It's, it's an addiction, like that chemical dump, like you're good. It's based on really the five elements. A lot of times you're going to have a GoTo emotion that can be addictive and it's a, it's a chemical dump and maybe it's the, uh, getting angry at something, you know? Cause what does anger usually comes from? It comes from a missed expectation. He had an expectation and the expectation wasn't met well in a 24 hour period, how many expectations aren't met? If you're engaged, you see a lot. Right? Okay. But that it's a chemical dump that you get and it can be very addictive and it can be fueled,
Speaker 1:
41:44
right? Yeah. People get fired up there, you know, they, they kind of get that manic high when they're angry, when they're screaming at somebody, you know, because it, it, it does something in their psyche or in their, in their body, chemically speaking. And that's just where they're comfortable. They know that emotion, they know that feeling. And it may be destructive in a number of different ways, but at least they know it.
Speaker 2:
42:05
The GoTo. Right. And sometimes it might be grief. See the anger would be the metal element. Sometimes people go inward. It would be grief. Yeah, that's a, that's metal. Uh, it could be shock, like that type of energy. Sometimes almost like a little victim energy that can Deke and show up in the shock. That would be fire. Some people have a more, um, they worry that's earth, you know, or sometimes it's fear, which is a water. So a lot of times you can even see elementally. I mean if you really want to go down the rabbit hole, you can do like a five element, you know, kind of diagnostic or assessment in, just look, even look at the body shape and even look at the, you know, the shape of the face and start to see, okay, what's some of your hardware? And you can usually better get a pretty good idea of what your, um, like some of your GoTo elements are.
Speaker 1:
42:50
Right. And I would imagine there's sometimes people they don't necessarily want to know or identify those things or if they do, they don't want to change them. Right. Yeah. And that's okay too. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to ask you about your, you're a black belt. Yeah. So what in in what, what study? What art forms?
Speaker 2:
43:09
Oh, well, I've been doing, uh, studying and teaching martial arts for over 30 years. Yeah. Um, and so it's, uh, mostly, I mean, if we really want to get, get, you know, micro, it's the sum of the Kung Fu and the, uh, and the Taoists systems, you know, basically Chinese and Korean, some of those systems. And really see there's a, a thing we do in martial arts, it's called warrior scholar Sage. And so there's different levels in the beginning. See, I encourage, you know, basically all parents at some point. Uh, most kids are good in a martial art program. I, I would think every kid should get a black ball. I mean, maybe some kids it's not right for, but for the most part, because there's the, like, like the warrior spirit, and if you get a good school, and there's tons of good martial arts schools that teach kids, they're going to teach discipline.
Speaker 2:
43:56
They're going to teach courtesy. They're going to teach respect, you know? Yes, sir. No, sir. Yes ma'am. No ma'am. That's good for kids, right? Especially nowadays. I mean it's just really, really good. And the discipline and the focus and, and you know, I think every kid, you know, get a black belt, that would be like a warrior, a stage, you know, then there is the scholarly pursuits, which has a lot of the stuff that we're talking about now. And that's some of the, um, even the medicine, some of the emotional mastery and a lot of the wisdom that comes. And then the Sage is, we can call that the, I mean, I can use the word spiritual, but a lot of that just means really dropping into the moment, right? And being in the moment and being completely engaged and completely present and Hey, you get emotions and you have dark emotions and I have dark emotions and they come and they go and they just, and it's, you know, and it's all flow through.
Speaker 1:
44:54
Yeah. And I think there's a lot of similarities with, with some of the, the martial arts and the different practice is where you get into a pattern in itself. So kind of like your music, you get, you get into this rhythm and this pattern and you start to see a cycle. There's a lot of that that takes place in, in martial arts. And I agree with you completely. I did TaeKwonDo, I did Brazilian jujitsu and I was a wrestler and all those things and uh, did some MMA after college and it, there's, there's a ton of value there. And one of the other things that we had spoken about previously was sort of, you know, at the exercise that the process of exercising and how that can be kind of meditative in and of itself.
Speaker 2:
45:32
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, um, there's different types of meditation. Let's, let's go back to matter. Energy and consciousness. Yeah. And so, and there's, you know, meditation, we call it sit, stand, move. In the sitting is what we're talking about. And most people think of meditation as the sitting cross your legs sit in the chair. You got it. Put your, your hands up. Yeah. And that's like the easiest to teach in the beginning. I mean that's something even from for this podcast, you can take one piece of music and you can do it. You could actually be successful with it right now there's other types of meditation that are more intricate and there's like moving meditation where you're coordinating breath, movement and intention. And then there's also different types of standing where it's like static posture. Sometimes you see that in yoga. Sometimes it's like you'll go into one posture and then you'll hold it and hold it for a couple minutes and connect into the breath.
Speaker 2:
46:17
And those are other types of meditation as well. But we were talking about this like with weight lifting. Okay, you can go to a gym and you can lift weights and that's better than not doing anything. And I go to a gym, I lift weights and you can do biceps and do curls, develop big biceps. So the thing is you don't dive a bad bicep, usually die of a heart attack. And so you want to do things that help the organs and the organs and the energy flows and also and also your joints. But a little thing that you can do while doing any type of exercise is you don't just do the body, but you add the breath in the intention. And so the breath
Speaker 1:
46:53
like, like
Speaker 2:
46:53
breathing in and out with everything is, I see a lot of weightlifters hold their breath. You're so much better off breathing. And then the third thing is you put your mind right into whatever you're exercising. Cause a lot of times the minds on a television or it's out or it's looking at other people in the gym. Listen to your music. Yeah, yeah. I mean the mute music is okay, but even when I go to a gym and I'm doing exercise, I closed my eyes and I don't want any external interference. I breathe and I go right in and whatever area I'm working, I put my mind right there and it just holds right there until I'm done with it. And you, so you could spend like two people the same amount of time in the gym. If you do that, you'll get a much greater ROI on your practice.
Speaker 2:
47:35
You're really putting your energy in that muscle group. You can probably lift more. Yeah, recover faster. Yeah, just do it with a little bit more consciousness. You've got it. And actually I remember hearing Arnold Schwarzenegger talk about that, that that's what he would do. He used different terminology like, but he came up with, he arrived in the exact same spot of adding the breath and just putting your mind into whatever body part and that's the emotion or the the meditation we spoke about earlier. Sometimes if you have something on your mind, you're going to solve it, not by thinking about it. You're going to solve it by not thinking about it and getting into your body, getting out of your head into your body and a then a lot of times the answers, the answers come right, which is something that I've been doing. You know, that's kind of been my analog to meditation and I know it's not something that is probably as effective as as what you teach, but it is something that, that, that, you know, helps kind of keep me balanced.
Speaker 2:
48:30
And I've leaned on you as counsel for kind of, you know, giving me some tips and you generously, you showed up today and you brought this, this item. Yeah. Can you tell us about it? Oh yeah. So here, let's see. So this, this is a shakuhachi flute. Um, right. And cause we'll, we'll, we'll get you a meditating. Yeah, I know. I've been doing this, no doubt about it. Yeah. And yeah, it's, it's, it's a, it's a beautiful thing that you brought. Well, and, and what it is, is I thought, cause I was thinking, I was thinking about you all week before this, like, okay, what's, what's good, what's going to help Robert here? And so I thought, you know, here's a, here's a flute. Yeah. And this is right off my shelf. This is a really nice one. This is a, this is a really a really cool one. And all it is, it's uh, uh, it helps with breathwork. And so it just forces you
Speaker 4:
49:29
[inaudible]
Speaker 2:
49:30
to stay in your breath and just one slow, steady breath. And when you're doing it, it's hard to think about anything else. It's a beautiful sound. I mean, that's a beautiful, that's a beautiful thing. Where does that originate from or how did that come into the practice? I mean, it, it doesn't look like much. I mean it, but it's, it's beautiful. Right? Right. Uh, well, you know, music and cultivation was always together. I mean, if you really even think about, um, you know, the power of, of music, everybody has some song that gave you chills at some point. The interesting thing is it's usually a different song. Like you have a hundred people. It's never the same for a hundred people. It's so, it's so individual and it's so unique. And if we also, a sound is the first sense that we develop in the womb.
Speaker 2:
50:24
Okay. For most people, in most cases, it's the sound of your mother's is the first thing that you actually hear in the womb. And if you also think about the ears, um, it's hard to close them. Like it's easier to close your eyes to close your nose, to close your mouth. It's very hard to do that. And that's an interesting thing. Yeah. Never thought about that. And also the ears, if we go into the medicine, it's considered the water element that connects to the kidneys and the kidneys are the batteries of your body. So we think like the kidneys is where all the, the, the, the energy comes from. And so, uh, everyone responds to sound on some level cross culture history historically in sound, you know, moves people and it creates emotion. And so, uh, this is one way in like one meditation of doing it and it's very simple. It's a bamboo stick with holes in it and then you breathe. Ultimately it's Arab, well you start with air, but then ultimately it's cheek that you, that you breathed on it. And there's martial traditions where you actually use this as a sword and you'll do sword training with it and then you do the, uh, you play it.
Speaker 1:
51:33
Yeah. Cause I think is that, is that the same type of flute that you have on the, on your website, in the background there, you're holding it behind your, yes. Yep. Yeah. I have a ton of these. Yeah. Yeah. It's very, it's very, very unique sound and it, and I can just feel when I hear that, I just, I just sounds beautiful and calming. It's, it's,
Speaker 2:
51:52
it usually it makes you have less thoughts, you know? And that's what sometimes a beautiful sound will do, right. All of a sudden it stops your mind and you have a moment of no thinking or even like a song that you really like. Sometimes it's a song from childhood. It just, you hear it and then you just go into this different state and then you stop thinking and you have this wonderful, you know what's wonderful moment,
Speaker 1:
52:14
right? Yeah. And you know, people, people do kind of have a reaction to the, to the vibrational stuff, but that's what sound is. Right? I mean, it's just, it just vibrations that, that you can hear and that kind of permeate through your body. Yeah. Very, very cool. Well, I really appreciate you bringing that. Um, the other thing I wanted to ask you about was that pendant that you have. Oh, the coin. The coin. Yeah. I see that. You know, I've seen you a number of times and you always have that. Can you tell us about that?
Speaker 2:
52:40
Uh, yeah. This is a, in our organization we have a whole series of, of coins and there's a teaching in the, in the coin, uh, and then the circle is symbolic of heaven in the square symbolic of earth. And the, the saying is like we, mankind, we stand in between heaven and earth, the feet in the earth and then up above in, in heaven. Uh, actually our organization has a whole bunch of variations on these. So we have a whole bunch of different coins with the teachings in it. And a lot of the teachings are, uh, we talk about the three matter, energy and consciousness. And then we have the five elements, uh, that we, that we spoke about earlier and we didn't use the word yin and yang, but we spoke about yin and yang and yin and yang. Is it having opposites? Like the moment I say, Hey, something is good, well, something has to be bad to create something good. If I say, Hey, this is a delicious cup of coffee. While there must be a, uh, I don't know, whatever word, not delicious. Couple of couple of, I mean everything has opposite the moment you call something pretty well then something has to be ugly because if everything were pretty, it would no longer right to nothing is pretty. Yeah. They would no longer be pretty. And so, uh, we have that, that contrast that's Indian young. So we, we, we put the, a lot of these teachings in the, uh, coin.
Speaker 1:
53:57
I love it. Yeah. And in that you kind of wear it as kind of a reminder to, to just kind of stay connected to those thoughts.
Speaker 2:
54:02
You got it. You got it. And when people come into our organization, we, you know, we have different, different coins and that's ultimately what it is. And it's a, it's a reminder of in a teaching through symbols as opposed to through like words,
Speaker 1:
54:14
right? Yeah. There's a lot of power in symbols, right? I mean you can connect you back to the concept without having to memorize a bunch of a bunch of language.
Speaker 2:
54:22
You got it. Yeah. Cause we tend to think in pictures. Right. You know, so it's like symbols and sound are a very powerful way of, um, of learning and just in, in engaging. Yeah.
Speaker 1:
54:34
Good stuff, man. Yeah, my head's kind of spinning right now cause it's, you know, it's really powerful. It's one of those things that I've, I've known for a long time that I needed to get more calm, more peace, more like you said, the snow globe, that turbidity kind of settling down a bit. And, uh, it's just been, it's been awesome that our paths have crossed. So that's what I wanted to, to kind of wrap up with. I wanted to ask you, there is a lot of material out there for, you know, everybody's got their own methods, their own mechanism for meditation. There's like, we talked about all the different apps and yoga and all sorts of different things. What are the best ways for people to connect with your materials and to, to kind of dive into it or, or at least dip their toe into the water so that they can start kind of getting acclimated to it and maybe changing the way that they think about it?
Speaker 2:
55:25
Yeah. Well, uh, Zen wellness.us is our website and there's information on there. Um, there's also things that, you know, we have little complimentary mini courses that you can start to go through and you can get information there. Uh, the music site is Jason Campbell, music.net. Uh, and there's a ton of information and a ton of music in there as well. And you know, what I like to say about there's all different types of meditation because, you know, people come up to me all the time, they say, Hey, what do you think of Headspace? Hey, what do you think of the muse? You know, um,
Speaker 1:
55:58
which is for people who don't know, the muse is the, it's the electronic headband.
Speaker 2:
56:02
Yeah. And I, and I, I know Arielle from, from, you know, from genius, she, she's awesome. You know, and even if at the end of the day, whatever gets you up the mountain, right? It doesn't matter. Like if you like the muse, some people like it because it reads out, you know, what you're doing. Okay. It's almost gamifies it. If that's okay, then that's, you know, then that's wonderful. Then then go with it. We have a lot of people that do the muse while listening to the music and they'll even do a test of w muse with the music and muse without, and they get better results with the music and connecting into the breath and, and seeing it. And so that, that, that, that's kinda cool. That's very cool. Um, but what I would also just say to begin, like if maybe if you're new to meditation or if you haven't done it, just go to the website and you know, find one of these songs that we, that we spoke about.
Speaker 2:
56:49
Just put one of them on and just do it for five minutes and do it without an expectation. Because you'll say sometimes, Oh, you know, this meditation was so good. Oh this meditation wasn't so good. Okay, fine. But ultimately there's no such thing as good or bad Zen. There's only is end, right? And so just be in the moment and just be, take one breath now. That's all you got to do one breath now. And that stops you from being past, future, past, future. Cause that's where stress comes from. Past, future, past, future, past future. Right. And I think,
Speaker 1:
57:24
correct me if I'm wrong, but you get better at it, right? When you're meditating, it's like exercise. Yes. So for somebody to put a lot of pressure on themselves and say, I'm going to sit down and meditate and I'm going to be at one with the universe and clear my head of all thoughts. It's kind of an insane thing. Yes. Yeah. I like the enthusiasm. Right. But you know, and actually we, we get a lot of people come to us that have been doing that and fail. Right. Right. And it's, it's very, uh, demotivating. Right? Right. So it's, it'd be like me, the reason why I don't golf because I'm terrible at golf. If I go out and I want to and I want to go on the golf course, I expect myself to hit a hole in one, which is an insane thought. Right? Like that's not going to happen. But that's why I don't go cause I'm terrible at it. And so when I've tried to meditate, you know, I just haven't gotten into a good rhythm, a good cycle where I can sit down and just say, okay, this is going to be what it is and, and I'm just going to kind of live in the present moment and just go through the experience, enjoy
Speaker 2:
58:22
the moment, just enjoy it. That's all you have to do is enjoy that one breath, no pass, no future and do that. And then, so what happens is a lot of, uh, the muscle is in, I call it like the recovery muscle. So you get thrown off emotionally, how fast can you come back to center, you know? And also what happens, Hey, you begin to practice. You get so good at it, it becomes normal and then something happens. You fall off your practice. Right? I've been doing this for, you know, for over 40 years. Okay. I've had times where I've fallen off my practice before. Then the only thing that matters is how quickly can you recover now, Oh, I haven't meditated in three days. Oh, I feel so bad. Okay. Shut up and meditate. Now, why are you even talking about it? Right. You know, Oh, I haven't done it in six months. Okay, congratulations. Sit down. Shut up right now if I to it. Yeah. Why are you, every time you talk about not doing it, you could be doing it, but that's a muscle. Because we love to get into our story. We love to, you know, loop our story and knows this come back and it's the muscle of how quickly can you recover.
Speaker 1:
59:24
Right. Well, you know, it, it, it makes a lot of sense. You know, I look at you, you're one of the most peaceful guys. You're, you're always just kind of billowing with energy. You look great. You know, I can't even believe you're going to be what you're going to be. You look like you're 30 years old, which is, which is a good incentive for a lot of us to just, you know, kind of get in touch with, with a different side, think differently for a little bit, calm the nerves down a little bit and I think we'll have a lot more of a fulfilling life.
Speaker 2:
59:52
Yeah. Be just be nice to yourself. Yeah. It's being very nice to yourself. Everything we spoke about,
Speaker 1:
59:56
right. Yeah. It's, it's a good, it's a good concept. I love it. I love what you're doing and I'm super excited that we met. All right, so let me tell people where they connect with you. So, Zen wellness dot U S Jason Campbell, music.net. You've got a ton of free resources for people. You're very generous guy. Um, you know, a lot of your stuff is on a lot of the apps, right? So Spotify and all sorts of different things where you're everywhere. Yeah. So get in touch. Anything else? I missed? Anything.
Speaker 2:
60:24
Uh, you know, uh, just the reminder is sit down, shut up and breathe for five minutes. Just do it. No excuse. And I, and, and, and connect with you to, to, you know, to, to get some help on that. Um, yeah, we'll, we'll help you out. I mean, you can reach us through the website. We have a amazing team. We have a ton of instructors. We have so much resources and yes, just, just connect with us.
Speaker 1:
60:45
Yeah. Connect. Get your meditation on. Jason Campbell, thank you so much for coming on the show. Really enjoyed talking with you and I love to love to have to do this again.
Speaker 2:
60:53
I really thank you so much for having me on. Thanks, Jason.
Speaker 5:
60:58
The ruler nation podcast is brought to you by the R and R law group, Arizona's premier criminal defense and personal injury law firm available@wwwdotrrlawaz.com or give us a call, four eight zero four zero zero one three.
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