Gruler Nation Podcast

Special Guest Episode! Wealth Management with Jim Dew

November 25, 2019
Gruler Nation Podcast
Special Guest Episode! Wealth Management with Jim Dew
Chapters
Gruler Nation Podcast
Special Guest Episode! Wealth Management with Jim Dew
Nov 25, 2019
Robert F. Gruler Jr., Esq.

Jim Dew was this episode's special guest! Jim Dew is an entrepreneur and a wealth management adviser who builds virtual family offices for entrepreneurs in the wealth management space. Jim is also an author of the book, Beyond a Million: The Entrepreneur. In his book, Jim shares his experience in helping entrepreneurs preserve their wealth.   

 

Jim Dew is the President of Dew Wealth Management and the creator of Functional Wealth Management. Jim is a Certified Financial Planner, Chartered Financial Consultant, and a Certified Private Wealth Advisor. He has been featured in Inc, Entrepreneur, and Huffington Post magazines.  

 

Are you interested in learning more about Jim and his services? Visit his website at dewwealth.com and be sure to check out his book on Amazon here: https://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Million-Entrepreneurs-Playbook-Expanding/dp/1619618222 

 

Please Like, Subscribe, and Comment below! 

  

#entrepreneur #wealth #advisor #wealthmanagement #beyondamillion #author #million #billionaire #arizona #success #podcast #InspirationwithGrulerNation #inspire #gruler #inspiration #GrulerNation #GrulerNationPodcast #gnp #arizonapodcast #scottsdale #yesphx #phx  

 

The Gruler Nation Podcast is a show that focuses on conversations with interesting "Level 10" people passionate about changing the world with their work, relationships and ideas. The show is hosted by Robert Gruler, an attorney and founding partner of the R&R Law Group, a criminal defense law firm based in Scottsdale, Arizona focused on helping good people charged with crimes move forward with their lives.   

 

Interested in being on the show or have a guest recommendation? Email Robert directly at robert@rrlawaz.com or visit www.robgruler.com for more information.  

 

Show Notes Transcript

Jim Dew was this episode's special guest! Jim Dew is an entrepreneur and a wealth management adviser who builds virtual family offices for entrepreneurs in the wealth management space. Jim is also an author of the book, Beyond a Million: The Entrepreneur. In his book, Jim shares his experience in helping entrepreneurs preserve their wealth.   

 

Jim Dew is the President of Dew Wealth Management and the creator of Functional Wealth Management. Jim is a Certified Financial Planner, Chartered Financial Consultant, and a Certified Private Wealth Advisor. He has been featured in Inc, Entrepreneur, and Huffington Post magazines.  

 

Are you interested in learning more about Jim and his services? Visit his website at dewwealth.com and be sure to check out his book on Amazon here: https://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Million-Entrepreneurs-Playbook-Expanding/dp/1619618222 

 

Please Like, Subscribe, and Comment below! 

  

#entrepreneur #wealth #advisor #wealthmanagement #beyondamillion #author #million #billionaire #arizona #success #podcast #InspirationwithGrulerNation #inspire #gruler #inspiration #GrulerNation #GrulerNationPodcast #gnp #arizonapodcast #scottsdale #yesphx #phx  

 

The Gruler Nation Podcast is a show that focuses on conversations with interesting "Level 10" people passionate about changing the world with their work, relationships and ideas. The show is hosted by Robert Gruler, an attorney and founding partner of the R&R Law Group, a criminal defense law firm based in Scottsdale, Arizona focused on helping good people charged with crimes move forward with their lives.   

 

Interested in being on the show or have a guest recommendation? Email Robert directly at robert@rrlawaz.com or visit www.robgruler.com for more information.  

 

Support the show (https://www.ericshouse.org/donate/)

Speaker 1:
0:00
Hey, welcome to the special edition on the road, the ruination podcast. My name is Robert ruler here with Jim. Do Jim do is an amazing guy. He's an entrepreneur. He is, I don't know what the correct word is, a wealth management advisor. How do you describe exactly what it is, what you do? What we do is we build virtual family offices for entrepreneurs in the wealth management space. I guess that's where he, I would describe what we do. Yeah. And I've seen you speak a number of different times and you're the author of this book beyond a million and it is the entrepreneur's playbook for expanding wealth, freedom and time. And we just got done meeting. Actually we spent, we spent a number of, uh, a good amount of time here in your office, which is where we're recording this. And one of the things that you have around your office are these different images, these different visuals that help people understand what it is you do.
Speaker 1:
0:51
Because sort of like criminal defense lawyers, I imagine that financial advisors are sort of a dime a dozen and you can throw a rock and hit 10 of them all over the place. And so your approach is, is a little bit different. Can you tell me, before we dive into this images behind us, can you tell me sort of how this evolved? What was the evolution, uh, for, for what it is you do? Where did that come from? So it started, and I've been helping entrepreneurs for 24 years, but in 1999 my wife Mimi and I left the brokerage world and started our own wealth management company. And it's been 20 years we've been doing that. And when we did that, we went on this path as entrepreneurs until I reached a moment when I was very excited when I looked at our tax return one year and saw how much we hit made.
Speaker 1:
1:39
Yeah. And then I scan down the tax return and saw how much we paid in taxes that year. And I got very, very sad very quickly. Yeah. And then I started to question myself. I started asked myself if we have the right professionals who are helping us with our wealth management, if I was making mistakes or missing opportunities. And I knew we had a great lifestyle, but I was wondering if it was even sustainable. So I started asking other wealth managers I knew well and respected and I got the same traditional answers about wealth management for entrepreneurs. So I luckily got introduced to a family office in New York city. I jumped on a plane, I flew back and met with the CEO. You know how sometimes you meet with so many, you just click, you just feel really comfortable, very fast. And he opened everything up for me and he showed me, cause this is a billionaire family, he showed me how they would hire the very best tax legal insurance and uh, law professionals, tax, legal insurance and investment professionals, all those full time employees working for that one family.
Speaker 1:
2:39
And I realized at that moment that that was the best way for an entrepreneur to manage his or her wall. There was just one challenge and that's you need about two or $300 million in assets before it makes any sense. So I remember on a plane flight home wondering, I wonder if I could build a virtual family office for a fraction of the cost for my own family and for entrepreneurs I work with. We're making great money but don't have $200 million in assets. So I needed an exist. So I created it and that's how I came up with a model that we now use to serve our entrepreneurs. And that's who we specialize as, who we work with as entrepreneurs. Yeah. And that's part of the reason we're here is to talk to you about that. I mean, one of the things that I've, we have found troubling, both Ryan and myself about, uh, the, the entire idea of managing your wealth is we don't know what we don't know.
Speaker 1:
3:29
And we kind of referred like a lot of the things, right? You, you call the first person who you know, who's a nice guy and they may work for a big entity, a big agency, and they're, they may not have your best interest in mind. In other words, is what I'm trying to get at now. We don't know that because it's the only experience we have with these financial instruments is, is what we see on TV called this, you know, there's commercial call this person or this person sounds like they know what they're doing and they're very nice people. So you decided to work with them. But there's a, there's a different way to approach it, right? There's, there's a fiduciary and then there's kind of, um, somebody who's not that. Can you describe what the differences between those two and how that, how that works with you?
Speaker 1:
4:12
Sure. So there's those advisors and the other brokers, and there are advisors that are advisors and then their advisors or financial planners that are dual registered. So, so broker is a sales person, and that's a person who's going to represent the broker dealer or the company they work for. So when they're wearing their broker hat, they're a salesperson. A investment advisor is a fiduciary. And so when they're wearing that hat, they legally have to do what's in your best interest. Okay. One of the challenges is most advisors today are dual registered. So what that means is that they're a broker in an investment advisor. So sometimes they're wearing the broker hat selling you stuff or representing the company. Other times they're wearing, the advisor has. So they're a fiduciary representing you. And rarely do clients really know the difference in when they're dealing with that person in one role or the other role.
Speaker 1:
5:04
So it's important to know the difference and there's some things you can do to find out, but that's one thing that you want to know is when does that person represent you as a fiduciary? And when does that person represent their company or their broker dealer? And so what you do with do well is only only the fiduciary, correct. We have for 20 years, we take on the fiduciary role with every client. So we represent the client. By law, we have to put their interests ahead of our own. And in addition to that, we structure our company to try to be aligned with the client as much as possible. Yeah, and I think it's very interesting because I have met, it was actually been other financial advisors or whatever the, the appropriate label is. They've actually been on this show and a lot of them have gone over the same sort of dichotomy, but their structure is different than what it is you do here.
Speaker 1:
5:53
Which leads me to believe that that's because they are dual registered. So they can use that dual registration and say, yeah, I'm a fiduciary. I'm looking at your data for you, Alper, you in your best interest. But at the same time, we're not, we're not paying out of pocket for them, which means they must be selling us something where they're, they're getting commission or there's some sort of alternative compensation goes on. Right. And there's an easy way to check. Okay. If you do a search, a Google search or whatever your search engine is, and you search for FINRA broker check. Okay. So F I N R a broker check. Anyone who licensed, whether it's a fiduciary or a broker is going to show up on the FINRA broker check when you pulled her name up and you do a search for them. If it says investment advisor and nothing else, they're a fiduciary.
Speaker 1:
6:38
If it says broker and nothing else, they're a salesperson. You're going to find, if you do this, that most advisors are going to have both on there where it'll say broker and it'll say investment advisor and that's where they're doing registered and you have to be careful because you need to know when are they wearing the sales hat, when are they wearing a fiduciary yet? I would imagine that you know a lot of financial advisors. When when you kind of break this down, do you get any pushback from them on that? You know, calling them sales people? I usually, when we're in person, I don't call them salespeople, but sometimes, I mean they are salespeople. If they're a broker, that's the definition of a sales person. Yeah. I get pushed back from when I meet dual registered brokers and then they tell me they're a fiduciary for their clients.
Speaker 1:
7:20
And I find out they have a broker dealer. So if they have a broker dealer, then they're, they're dual registered. So that means at times they may be wearing the salesperson hat or the broker hat and at times they may be wearing the fiduciary yet. So yeah, I gave him a hard time in that. I tell them if they tell me they're a fiduciary and then I find out they're doing registered, I'll say, well then part of the time you're not cause you're dual registered. It becomes confusing to the clients into the consumer world. And that's what concerns me. It is concerning. Yeah. And it is confusing because we, we don't, like I said, you don't know what you don't know. And the first person who kind of rings the bell and you call him and they sign you up and they don't explain that.
Speaker 1:
7:57
If they're one way or the other, they don't really talk about that. They just kind of hide that ball. We see a lot of that in criminal law actually. And then we see a lot of attorneys, you say we do a ton of DUI cases and you look them up and they don't do any DUI cases. Right? Right. So it's just like, okay, well it's a different ballgame. It's a different level of skill, different expertise. And then of course in your, in your field, it's a different level of accountability. Your account, you're accountable as a fiduciary directly to the client where some of the people just don't have that legal requirement. That's true. The other thing I would have people look for is you want to find someone who specialize, specializes in your situation. Yeah. So often if I look at another financial advisor's website, it might say I specialize in retirees and professional athletes and business owners and people who inherit their wall.
Speaker 1:
8:45
No one can specialize in all those areas. So they're probably a generalist. And many advisors are generalists and you want someone who specializes in what you do. So an easy way to find out as you just at all our materials. Sure. And if you were a retiree from Intel and all it does is talk about retirees from Intel, then that's probably a good fit for you. Right. But if it just has a bunch of general categories, then you're probably dealing with the general lesson. The more important this advisor is in your life, the more I'd like you to see a specialist. Right? Just like if you're going to see a doctor, you know, you may see a general practitioner, but if you have a specific problem like you broke your wrist, you're going to want to go to a hand and wrist surgeon, some specialized specialty person that can fix something like that.
Speaker 1:
9:27
Right. What, what, how did you decide to focus only on entrepreneurs or predominantly on entrepreneurs because there's, it's kind of a small subset of, of the world. You know, we were at an event where somebody was talking about his Cameron Harold who was talking about Cameron's, a friend of mine, he's a great guy, great guy. I spoke to him yesterday. Yeah, he's fascinating guy and he gave that smart about the highs and lows of CEOs and that really only a certain percent of the population should ever even try to be an entrepreneur. And there's a lot of people who are so-called entrepreneurs, but they probably should do something else just because of the tap. It's very taxing, it's exhausting and it, and it requires kind of a special disposition and personality to do that long way around of saying it's a real small subset of the population.
Speaker 1:
10:14
And so anybody who's going to focus on the, on that area sort of, you know, limiting really niching down into a small subset of the population. What led you to want to focus on, on helping other entrepreneurs? So I had a coach and the coach said to me that Richard is in the niches. Yeah man, you to be an expert in an area, you really have to be narrow to really add value to certain people. And in fact, the example that she gave me, she said if I asked you if you knew a one legged ballerina, yeah. If you were one legged ballerina, that'd be the first name that popped into your head. If you tell someone, you know, do you have any friends? Yes, I have friends. It's hard to kind of narrow that down. Sure. So her thing was you need to be very focused in your business.
Speaker 1:
11:00
And so what she had me do is this exercise. And I looked at all my clients, I said, okay, who do I love to work with? Yeah. And who's profitable because you don't want to go broke in this business. Sure. And they came out to be the same group. It was entrepreneurs. And because I'm an entrepreneur, I formed my own company in 1999 I don't work for any company that tells me what to do or how to treat my clients. I don't have a manager, there's not a CEO above me. So since I created my own company and went on the entrepreneurial journey, I feel like I connect really well with entrepreneurs. So it was for those reasons. And then I thought, why don't I just work with the people I love to work with, where I can add the most value, where I have the expertise and that made my life so much easier because for example, I do a lot of continuing education and when I look at a conference I can pick, does this apply to an entrepreneur or not?
Speaker 1:
11:51
If it doesn't, I'm not going to go to that breakout session, so it's helped me be better and it's helped me focus and then I also don't have to worry. If someone approaches me and they don't fit, then I just say, you know what? We're not a good fit. You'd probably be better served with a different financial person than me. Yes, and you have this beautiful financial model that one of the key components of what value you do provide is that you act as a time shield, time, energy shield for the entrepreneurs, which is a huge value add. I mean when you were talking about that this morning, I was thinking that's brilliant because there are a lot of demands on an entrepreneur's time. You're always pulled in multiple directions, you're wearing many different hats. Some days you're answering the phones, the other days your filing paperwork with the federal government, more taxes and things.
Speaker 1:
12:43
I mean you're doing a lot of different things. And so, um, I want to ask you to sort of walk us through this image that is standing up behind us. Sure. But what we've got here, we've got a, just for the audio only people, we have two images of a bicycle wheels or tires and one of them is deflated and one of them is full. It looks like you could just hop right on and ride it. And on the deflated one we'll talk first. So you've got, it's, it's, it looks deflated, it looks, the spokes are all bent out of shape. And at the center you've got an entrepreneur and then you've got these different components that are sort of at the, the outer, outer rim of the wheel. Why don't you just walk us through that? Sure. So when an entrepreneur comes to me, they usually have this, we call it the financial flat tire.
Speaker 1:
13:30
And for those on the video, it's the one on the left and for you on the audio, I'll do my best to explain. So the entreprenuer is the hub and over and entrepreneur's lifetime, they're going to pick up different professionals. They'll pick up an insurance agent, they'll pick up an account and they'll pick up an attorney. So they get these different professionals and when we come into the picture we find that they're often not all a players, they're not talking to each other. And the worst part is the entrepreneurs in the middle, like the hub of the wheel, trying to manage all these relationships. The problem with that is the entrepreneur is not an expert at tax legal insurance and investments yet they're trying to talk to all these experts in those different areas. So you get this financial flat tire and just like a flat tire or you can drive on a flat tire or write a flat tire.
Speaker 1:
14:14
It's challenging and can get you a little way. Eventually it's probably going to break down and so that's the wheel that we created to demonstrate or to show exactly where an entrepreneur is. Usually when they hire us. And on the wheel on the right, this is what we call the, um, me functional wealth wheel and the functional wealth wheel has the same professionals, but now we vetted them to make sure they're all a players. We make sure that they're coordinating their efforts and they're talking to each other. And then we put ourselves in the middle and the hub and then the entrepreneur becomes the pedal. So even though the Pennell moves the wheel, it becomes much easier when you're the pedal then when you're trying to move the whole wheel in another way. So we're kind of the first point of contact. And then as you were saying, Rob, the time energy shield, we're shielding the entrepreneur from the time it would take dealing with the other professionals, with pitches and with projects.
Speaker 1:
15:10
And then we bring in the entrepreneur as needed to make decisions. And of course they're in different meetings with some of these professionals, but we're protecting our time and energy so that only when they're needed are they going to be brought in. And we find that that change alone of all the things we do makes a dramatic impact and this is really the family office. You know, billionaires are not in the center of their advisors. They're not talking to the insurance person and someone else is doing that coordinating. It's usually the CEO of the family and office and then they bring in the entrepreneur when needed to make decisions and to add input. Yeah, it's and it's an awesome visual. It really explains and shows in in kind of layman's terms what you do. When we were speaking, the analogy that I had was the general contract.
Speaker 1:
15:53
I used to build swimming pools before I went to law school, so I was the general contractor. I'd hire the best plumber, the best electrician, the best, the steel guy, the best landscaping guy, and we build this big beautiful pool and it would all be funneled through me. It's essentially what you're doing in the financial industry and then what was very interesting to me was that you didn't actually indicate that anybody needed to break their current relationships. We prefer to keep the current professionals. If there is an a player on the team, we want to keep that a player. And if it's an a player that's doing a C job, because we find sometimes there might be an attorney who is a really good attorney, but he's so busy that they're not getting to this person, this person isn't that important. So we want to elevate our entrepreneur so that that person's getting a quality work from a professional.
Speaker 1:
16:44
So we prefer to keep current professionals and we're sensitive to relationships, right? So if someone, we've had this situation, we've had someone who, their insurance agent was, was there brother-in-law and they said, I can't find them. My brother in law, when we found problems in the policies, we went back to their brother-in-law and we said, you have to up your game. You have to do better or we're going to insist that you're gone. And that way we kept the brother-in-law with the client and got the brother and a lot of to do a better job. And now there's not a problem at Thanksgiving, which right there we are getting closer to Thanksgiving. Yeah. Yeah. We're getting close. Yeah, and that's a good thing because there's, there's some hard conversations that often need to be had and oftentimes we don't know what we're looking for as entrepreneurs.
Speaker 1:
17:27
You just say, well maybe I'm not supposed to speak with my attorney every quarter. Maybe, maybe my financial guy. This is just how it is. I just keep, keep funneling them checks over, trust that he's doing what he's doing. Wouldn't know any better, wouldn't even know where to look. And of course you know what best practices are for each one of those different spokes that make up the wheel, which is, tell me a little bit about the book. So beyond the million, beyond the million is again one more time, the entrepreneur's playbook for expanding wealth, freedom and time. So what prompted you to write this? Was it just to kind of as a, as a primer you years of talking about writing a book. Yeah. And then I had this fantasy that I was going to get up on Saturday mornings, make a cup of coffee and sit and write for two hours.
Speaker 1:
18:14
And for some reason that didn't happen. Yeah. So I finally hired a friend of mine, Tucker max. He has a company called scribe media. And Tucker helped me get my book done and I tried to make it a really useful book really for my target audience. My target audience would be entrepreneurs, founders, owners of a business that are doing $1 million net income and above. That's kind of our target market. And yet I've been surprised with this book because I've got my college roommate who is a college professor, read my book. I said, it's not really for you. And he said, I got some great tips out of your book. Yeah, I'd had a lot of entrepreneurs who are not yet at the success level where they'd be a client of ours, but they've gotten a lot out of it. And one thing I tried to do, and Tucker was good about this too, is I tried to put real value on the book.
Speaker 1:
18:59
Sometimes I've read books from financial people and I feel like I don't really learn anything. I learned that it's an interesting read and the person's really trying to use it to get more business or whatever. And I'm not saying that we're not using this to get more business, but uh, I put stuff in there that people who have a great team can take it back to their teen people who need some ideas that maybe they're weren't aware of, are going to get ideas like that. And then I weave in some stories about me and my family because when I first wrote it, I'm kind of a technical person, my undergraduate degrees in mathematics. And I had an entrepreneur friend of mine read that and say, you know, Jim, this is a great book. It's just missing one thing. I said, what's that? And she said, you know, we're in this book.
Speaker 1:
19:41
So I put stories in there to make it more palatable to read and hopefully interesting stories in there about my family. And then I actually hired Elaine glass to help me consult with some of the stories and she was a great contributor to the book as well. So that's the story in the book. And then there's a quote from, from Dave Asprey, he's the founder and CEO of Bulletproof coffee, which we drank a lot of, uh, who said that you guys kind of worked on the title, you know, or collaborated on the title and you settled on, you settled on beyond a million. What does that, where did that come from? So Dave and I were half naked in a sauna together on an Alaska fishing trip as the true story. And we're sitting there and the sauna and Dave says, what do you have two?
Speaker 1:
20:21
And I said, I'm almost done with my book. And he said, okay, what's the title? And I told them, I can't remember the time I should remember it because yeah, people, I just, they ask, cause you'll ask as soon as I tell you the story. Yeah. So I told him the title and he says, Jim, Matt might be possibly the worst title I've ever heard in my life. That title is horrible. Which that's why you have good friends who are entrepreneurs because they tell you the truth. Yeah. And I said, okay, it's horrible. And he said, well let's brainstorm and come with a title. So we brainstorm there in the sauna in this beautiful area of Alaska and went back and forth and came up with beyond a million and that stuck and I'm really happy with the title. Yeah, that's a great title. And there, there is a lot of actionable stuff in there and I think it's great, you know, because there are a lot of entrepreneurs who have big visions but they are not ready to be there.
Speaker 1:
21:05
I mean, you know, Ryan and I, we started our company in a spare bedroom in my house on a folding table with two laptops, you know, right next to each other. And at that point in time we were not ready to sit down and have a conversation with you. But this type of literature is a good primer. It's a definitely good way to start thinking big and you know, eventually it'll be, it'll be a good time to work with you. And that's what we're doing now. Yeah, well we're excited about that. And I remember when in 1999 when I formed my company, I had a a, what do they call the office suites where you rent executives, wedding suites. And I had an interior office with no windows because that has the cheapest and I had an assistant and our chairs would bang each other.
Speaker 1:
21:46
So like you couldn't get up if she was getting up. And, uh, so anyway, your story about being how you started. Uh, it's funny that, uh, and I used to have someone I knew who since passed. We came from a very, very wealthy family in America, one that everyone would know. And, and he would tell me when I was starting out in that little office and I'd see him and he'd give me encouraging words. He would always say, uh, you know, the biggest Oak trees grow from little, little acorns. And it was kind of a cool thing that he would tell me. I still remember that today because he was, like I said, he sent passed, but very, very wealthy person and encourage me like it doesn't matter that you're small, like an acorn, you can grow into an Oak tree. And so it's fun to think back about where we started, how far we've come.
Speaker 1:
22:28
It is, it's very funny. You know, there's that image, there's an image that goes around on the internet a lot about, and it's got these pictures of these four garages and you know, it says Apple started there, Google was started there, Facebook was the, you know, when you just go and you go, Oh my God. And you know, Amazon was started there and the interest is small little idea. And you know, Joe Polish has the little hinges swing, big Doria, right? And it's just so, it's so interesting, but a lot of the times entrepreneurs, you're too focused on the other things that you just don't know really what's going on with, with your money or you don't have a good enough grasp on it. And so that's why I appreciate so much what you're doing. What are some good places for people to connect with you?
Speaker 1:
23:08
So if you argue, you listened to the show when you want to reach out to, to gym or connect on social media or by the book, how can they do that? Yeah, so LinkedIn's probably the best way to connect with me through social media. The book's available on Amazon. Uh, we have a Kindle version and we have an audio, we have everything there. So it's easy to, to find that great. And then the, what's kind of the threshold for, for people who, where you can provide a lot of value to them. I want to user entrepreneurs who have companies that are doing $1 million and even up, but to use a term that entrepreneurs would understand, but that's really net income and million dollars net is really where we can do a lot of value. And up from there we have clients that are making a lot more than that.
Speaker 1:
23:50
That's great. And then your, your, your office is in Scottsdale, so right at the one-on-one and rain tree issue area. And do you only work with people in, in Scottsdale or Phoenix or is this a something that expands beyond? We have clients all over the country or clients in California, Texas, Florida, Pennsylvania, New York, New Jersey. We have clients all over the country. In this day and age, we can video conference and we don't have to be in the same room. Uh, so yeah, that's, that's easy. Awesome. Well, there you go. So beyond the million Jim, do, and Jim, I really appreciate you taking the time. It's been a lot of fun speaking with you this morning and we'll stay in touch. I enjoyed it. Thanks Ron. Thanks Jim.
Speaker 2:
24:29
The ruler nation podcast is brought to you by the RN Gar law group. Arizona's premier criminal defense and personal injury law firm available@wwwdotrralaaz.com or give us a call, four eight zero four zero zero one three.
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