Gruler Nation Podcast

Episode #65: Capstone Realty Principal and Designated Broker, Ed Drummond

October 30, 2019
Gruler Nation Podcast
Episode #65: Capstone Realty Principal and Designated Broker, Ed Drummond
Chapters
Gruler Nation Podcast
Episode #65: Capstone Realty Principal and Designated Broker, Ed Drummond
Oct 30, 2019
Robert F. Gruler Jr., Esq.

Ed Drummond is featured in our 65th Episode of the Gruler Nation Podcast! Ed is the Principal and Designated Broker of Capstone Realty Professionals. Ed helps first time buyers and seasoned buyers who are looking for investment properties. Ed also has an in house team who helps manage residential real estate.   

 

Ed has assisted hundreds of buyers and sellers in the Phoenix market since 2007, and since 2015 has ranked in the top 1% of Realtors by volume in the Phoenix metro area. Ed is an expert in real estate and has an obvious passion that helps drive his business and guarantees that his clients can always rely on him.  

 

To find out more about Ed Drummond and Capstone Realty check out his website at https://soldonphoenix.com/ and feel free to reach out to him by email at ed@capstonerealtypros.com  

 

Please Like, Subscribe, and Comment below! 

 

#principal #designatedbroker #capstonerealty #capstone #professionals #investmentproperties #invest #manage #realestate #firsttimebuyers #firsttimers #residential #phoenix #arizona #growth #success #podcast #InspirationthroughGrulerNation #inspire #gruler #inspiration #GrulerNation #GrulerNationPodcast #gnp #arizonapodcast #scottsdale #yesphx #phx  

 

The Gruler Nation Podcast is a show that focuses on conversations with interesting "Level 10" people passionate about changing the world with their work, relationships and ideas. The show is hosted by Robert Gruler, an attorney and founding partner of the R&R Law Group, a criminal defense law firm based in Scottsdale, Arizona focused on helping good people charged with crimes move forward with their lives.   

 

Interested in being on the show or have a guest recommendation? Email Robert directly at robert@rrlawaz.com or visit www.robgruler.com for more information.  

Show Notes Transcript

Ed Drummond is featured in our 65th Episode of the Gruler Nation Podcast! Ed is the Principal and Designated Broker of Capstone Realty Professionals. Ed helps first time buyers and seasoned buyers who are looking for investment properties. Ed also has an in house team who helps manage residential real estate.   

 

Ed has assisted hundreds of buyers and sellers in the Phoenix market since 2007, and since 2015 has ranked in the top 1% of Realtors by volume in the Phoenix metro area. Ed is an expert in real estate and has an obvious passion that helps drive his business and guarantees that his clients can always rely on him.  

 

To find out more about Ed Drummond and Capstone Realty check out his website at https://soldonphoenix.com/ and feel free to reach out to him by email at ed@capstonerealtypros.com  

 

Please Like, Subscribe, and Comment below! 

 

#principal #designatedbroker #capstonerealty #capstone #professionals #investmentproperties #invest #manage #realestate #firsttimebuyers #firsttimers #residential #phoenix #arizona #growth #success #podcast #InspirationthroughGrulerNation #inspire #gruler #inspiration #GrulerNation #GrulerNationPodcast #gnp #arizonapodcast #scottsdale #yesphx #phx  

 

The Gruler Nation Podcast is a show that focuses on conversations with interesting "Level 10" people passionate about changing the world with their work, relationships and ideas. The show is hosted by Robert Gruler, an attorney and founding partner of the R&R Law Group, a criminal defense law firm based in Scottsdale, Arizona focused on helping good people charged with crimes move forward with their lives.   

 

Interested in being on the show or have a guest recommendation? Email Robert directly at robert@rrlawaz.com or visit www.robgruler.com for more information.  

Support the show (https://www.ericshouse.org/donate/)

Speaker 1:
0:01
Okay.
Speaker 2:
0:01
This is episode 65 of the griller nation podcast. My name is Robert ruler, joined today by ed Drummond. Ed is the principal of capstone Realty professionals. They do all things Realty. I guess I would say ed, thanks for coming on the program. Thanks for having me man. Appreciate it. So tell me about capstone, cause I know, I know you do a lot and you know, Realty is real estate is something that is
Speaker 1:
0:24
a huge part of most people's lives, right? And the kind of, it's kind of the American dream to go and own a home and, and it's a good way to invest your, your, your money into an asset that will appreciate. And so I know you offer a lot of services for a number of different parts of that whole kind of world. Absolutely. Tell us a little bit about it, about capstone. What do you guys do? Yeah, so capstone we do, uh, just like you mentioned, we help people with buying and selling. So we help buyers buy, let's say their first house or um, even the more seasoned investors. We help them buy investment property. And then if that investment property ends up needing to be managed and leased, we have a team and in house management team that helps through that entire process. So we help manage residential real estate and what, what goes into that.
Speaker 1:
1:12
So I mean that's a big part. I think that's kind of one of those things that people don't necessarily understand how much goes into that. Right? Right. People think that they can just buy a house and they'll just throw some tenants in there and not, not have to worry about it. Just collect a check every month. But it's way more than that, I would imagine. For sure. I think, you know, and we started small. Um, you know, I started as, as a solopreneur investor who, you know, my end game honestly was just own, you know, 50 properties and say, cool, that's my ride off into the sunset. Yeah. So, you know, it started as a, let me just do it myself and see what I can do. Right. And I did that and it was, it was hard. And what I found as an owner managing a property myself, um, I ended up being taken advantage of a lot because, um, I play, they play with my heartstrings a lot, right?
Speaker 1:
2:00
Yeah. I tried to call myself as bad ass, but then all of a sudden somebody has something bad happened in their family or whatever it is, and they're like, Oh, I empathize with you. Let me, let me help. So what management does is it clearly defines a black and white in property management in that whole element. So now we take a piece and we say, okay, I've got, let's say a property manager. We've got an element that handles the applications and somebody's handling the screening on the front end, right? Because that's a job in and of itself. And then there's the maintenance coordination and maintenance is probably the biggest deal when it comes to management. I'm having not only people behind the scenes that are coordinating this stuff, but also vendors that can knock it out of the park or in house teams that can get the stuff done with, you know, good service, good quality and consistency.
Speaker 1:
2:53
And it's like, um, that's honestly like right now as, as we scale and as we grow, maintenance is the piece that we really have to focus on the most. Yeah. Yeah. So it's a lot. It's just like you said, there's so many moving parts, um, the leasing portion, the management portion, and of course maintenance is, you know, I'd say 70% of the load. Yeah. That, yeah, that's a lot have, and I own a home that I do rent out and it's something that, uh, I think I've been very fortunate because most, most everything's operating well, but when you start, when you, when you're an investor, you're somebody with multiple properties and you start kind of scaling that up, I can imagine that that becomes a headache where so, so tell me about, I know, I know you said you kind of started as a solo preneur yeah, I really want to walk through that journey a bit because that's what gets me so excited about, about speaking with other business owners.
Speaker 1:
3:45
So you, you moved to Arizona at one point. So I moved to Arizona right after college. I'm in 99. And the guys that I work for in Santa, I went to school in Santa Barbara and I worked for this company. Um, and the guy I worked for was straight up as entrepreneurial as you can get, right. He had this beautiful mansion and hope ranch and I worked out of, out of his, basically one of the horse stalls. I'm doing this business that he had a four page shower systems for, uh, for the state of California. So super cool opportunity to see this guy coming up with ideas consistently. And myself and another guy that I worked there with, we would come up with ideas all the time and if it made sense, he would like say, Hey, here's some money, see if this, see if this will work.
Speaker 1:
4:30
Wow. Like a little angel investment is super cool. So, so I mean, I into the point of one part, I thought that we could make some of those, I mean, cable the scrambler right. That was like, Hey, I saw this thing, radio shack, let me see if I can make this. He's like, well, let's see if it works. Right? And I was like, Oh cool man. And it didn't, if it did, I'm sure it would've been a different story, you know. Um, but you know, I was working just doing technical work there, came out here to bring the business out here and there, the state parks out here and not the same. Um, he had, he had it cornered up where he basically went to a, um, one of the state parks in California at some point and went to take a shower and the shower was cold and he's like, Hey California, here's what I'll do for you.
Speaker 1:
5:12
I'm going to install a bunch of paid shower systems. I'll give you 30%. And then at the end of the day, you guys get to keep the product after so many years. And it was a great moneymaker. Wow. Yeah. I was collecting like 20 to 25 grand in quarters for this guy every week. Nope. Yeah, just in like a third of our territory. It was proud. That's cool. I've never heard of it actually. Yeah. So it's like those things, you go, you press the button and it spits out the water or hot water. Do you camp? Yeah. Okay. So camping in California, they have like campgrounds, like, you know, go to San Diego, they got like San Alito, they've got Santa, no free. All these camp sites. When you go into their end of their shower stalls, there's a, there's a quarter slot that you basically put it in there. Okay.
Speaker 1:
5:54
Yeah. Quarters slot activates a solenoid. So only my kicks on the hot water. And you're good to go. Cool. Yeah. All right, so you're working with him for a bit. Yeah, man came out here, um, was bringing it out here and didn't decided that wasn't gonna make sense. And then, uh, really ended up going into recruiting for a few years. And then from recruiting, um, I got into, uh, like national sales of corporate relocation services. Okay. And with that, um, the guys that I worked for, um, there essentially were five of them, um, all of which were entrepreneurs. Um, super cool guys. Uh, you know, I still talk to half of them. They're really cool. Um, and they basically let me, uh, kind of use one of their products, um, and help grow it right. And they kind of gave me carp launch and said, Hey, make this grow.
Speaker 1:
6:48
And, and I did and it was fun and it was awesome and it was phenomenal opportunity. Um, it was basically the van line services for real estate companies and that's when I got into more real estate full time. Okay. Initially got my license because I wanted to know my client. Um, my clients were brokers and realtors all over the country. Um, so I had, um, you know, my territory, I essentially had a um, Remax with one of my clients. We had a, a product specifically for them called the moving coach and that when I somewhat had adopted as well as a program for Prudential, um, called van line express and we private label these moving services for these different real estate companies. Okay. Then I'd go to the brokers and say, Hey, Remax broker, check this out. We've got this exclusive service to you called the moving coach that basically will help with the move and get you discounted rates to get your client discounted rates and make it, uh, an exceptional moving experience.
Speaker 1:
7:46
Um, so that's what I did for a while, launched a few more, uh, one for help you sell one for NAR and then launched one, um, for Keller Williams. And that was towards the time that the market was starting to dip. Um, we could already see it in our market because my production was directly tied to what realtors were selling and there are people moving in and out of state and that was the end of Oh six. And we started to see it. So at the beginning of Oh seven, um, I got into real estate full time, uh, because I felt there was no other better time to win and everybody else was kinda bailing out of it, kinda bailing. Anna was in a position financial at that point to say, okay, I can give myself six months to learn this, see what happens. But either way, I was probably going to be struggling if I would have stayed where I was because the market was changing there anyway.
Speaker 1:
8:36
Yeah. Um, so yeah, so I got into real estate full time and that was about 2007. That was in seven. Yeah, it was February of seven. And then, uh, at that point I had, let's see, I had bought a house and then I bought my first investment property in Oh six. And it was my big mistake of, uh, investment property. So I bought at the very top. Yeah. Though six was the top [inaudible] I got my house. Yeah. Yeah, I bought it the very top. Um, I, I did a couple things where, you know, I was reading particular books and one of them, um, basically w preached pull equity out of your properties and leverage that equity and buy other assets. Right. Which I still believe in. It's just at that time where the market was, um, it still gave me the opportunity to buy that condo that I did.
Speaker 1:
9:26
Yeah. But again, the condo was a dog and I didn't know it was a dog cause I just didn't know what I didn't know. Right. So getting into fast forward a few years, um, I'm doing, you know, residential resale and really just hustling at everything that people say is hard or that they won't do, became a short sale. Experts, started doing a ton of short sales, um, started doing man property management and uh, because of the relationships we had in our office, the owner of our, um, office at the time, he owned three here locally, he gave me the opportunity to basically still do management out of his office, um, when he wouldn't allow anybody else to do it. So that was cool. And we weren't managing much. I mean we were at like 30 properties, but basically it was one where if somebody was, I do a lot with the military, so let's say somebody was gonna get PCs, their permit change of station, or they were going to get deployed and they had a VA loan.
Speaker 1:
10:26
I knew at the time that a VA loan was not a good loan to do. A short sale with okay. Because it was going to stay with them differently than the average consumer. Yeah. So we'd basically just say, Hey, I'll manage your property, man. Let's, we'll just manage it for you and we'll figure it out later. Kind of it was how it left because we could make, you know, make it break even, and then just kinda ride the storm as long as they needed and see what happens. Um, yeah. That's interesting. So I mean, it sounds like there's a lot of figuring it out going on. Heck yeah. In that process we did. I never, this was never like a clear vision. Even back then, I was always like, management, gosh, management is tough. I initially started the management in Oh eight, um, with a partner at the time for a month.
Speaker 1:
11:14
We were like, partners were all gung ho, we're going to do this together. There's going to be great. Um, we went to the school together to, to asthma, to Arizona school, real estate and business, and took this class together. And, uh, after a month he goes, ed, I'm not gonna do this. I'm out. Yeah. And I'm like, well, you're talking about it. And he goes, and there's so much liability. He goes, where's the positive in this? Like weird. I was like, Oh no, don't do this man. This is gonna be great. Right. Yeah. And that was it. So then right after, right after he and I kind of broke up, um, I hired my first associate, my first, essentially she was my assistant at the time. Yeah. Cause I needed help and um, yeah, she's awesome. And still still with the company. So with you, when you look back on that, on that decision from your former partner, yeah.
Speaker 1:
12:04
Do you, do you think that things would've been better or are you kind of happy that he gave you that out? Oh, completely happy. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I know myself now and like, yeah, partners. So since then I've had other partnerships. I get into things and I'm super optimistic. Like, yeah, Oh, this is going to be great. We're gonna make this work. This is, but I know myself. Right. I know my level of, um, determination. Yeah. I know my level of like getting things done and it's like it's, you know, it's hard to, it's hard to say to somebody else, these are the things I'm going to do, you know, what are you, how are we going to put this together? It's, I've been through multiple situations with partnerships that just didn't work out. Yeah. Yeah. It's tricky. You know, it's like a marriage in a way.
Speaker 1:
12:53
I mean, Ryan and I are partners. We've been partners, best friends for a long time, but I feel very fortunate that our paths cross and that we're able to be so kind of synergistic with one another. But now when I think about it, when I, you know, other business ventures and stuff and people are like, yeah, we should partner on that. I'm like, Nope, I'm good man. We're, we're good. Because it's it. There is a lot, I mean there's, there's, you ended up giving up a lot and then there's typically kind of a miss mismatch in terms of performance from both people. Somebody's always doing a little bit less or a little bit more. And so it's just not, it's a tricky thing to navigate. You're absolutely right. And I think getting into that, it's setting up expectations. So I feel like with all of our property management clients, we're like partners, right?
Speaker 1:
13:33
It's true. Yeah, we totally are. But what's different is that we've really set up a very key, deliberate set of expectations up front that says this is what our partnership is going to look like. Right. The other partnerships that I had gotten into, I didn't do that and that's, that's where things could've been different. I didn't think through or know enough to be able to say, okay, with these challenges, how are we going to handle it? What are, what's our core, our corrective course of action if we run into this, this or this, and what is, what does the future look like? Right? Like those are the things that I, I'd always get into it just going, we're just gonna make this work, right? Yeah. I'm going to buckle down and just make it work and I know my level of buckle down and make it work.
Speaker 1:
14:16
And to other people, there's may look different. Not better or worse, just different, you know? So, yeah. Yeah. It's, it's fun because you, you have that kind of, that entrepreneurial bone in your body, you know, you've just got it. I mean, throughout, throughout what we've been speaking about, just this little time here, you know, you've talked a lot about all these different kinds of endeavors that you just kind of said, that looks cool. I'm going to go try that. And you know that the fact that you and your former partner were sitting there and you're looking at it like the glass is half full. I'm excited about this. We're going to go tackle it. We're going to go knock it out of the park. He,
Speaker 2:
14:52
he or she or whoever your partner was, turns around and says, there's too much liability. There's too much risk. That's kind of the essential difference between entrepreneurs and people who are not right. They say they look at that and they say, you know, that's risky, but I see a lot of upside to it and I'm going to go do it anyways. And you did it, you know, knowing that in 2006, things were changing a little bit. You can kind of foresee the downturn coming and you're still going all in into real estate when everybody's bouncing out a real estate, that huge bubble burst. Do you, do you come from a family of entrepreneurs or where, where does that come from, that little spirit that you have about just going out there and just kind of conquering? Yeah, that's a good
Speaker 1:
15:33
question. Um, you know, I think a lot of it comes from, you know, I, I did see that early on with, with my dad. Um, he had a trucking company. Um, he's, he'd had a couple of different, um, you know, attempts at growing businesses as I was growing up. And I don't, I don't know if that's where it came from, but, but again, I think that's where most of it was like, Hey, you can, you can make it happen. Right, right. I think a lot of it, it just comes from a, um, I, I know when I look back at the past and I go, all right, what are those defining moments that say this, this was what changed? That they're more of these things that when people were like, you can't do that or you can't do, that was the same thing with, with property management and short sales people were like, why are you gonna do that?
Speaker 1:
16:23
You can't do that. Right? Right. Or that's, no, why would you do that? Right. That's when it made more sense to me to be like, all right, that then I must be on to something. And I think that the more we push through these things, the more where people say, why when they question it, I feel like I'm doing something right. Right, right. Because I think in, in my family, um, there was a lot of, uh, consistency on one side and then, you know, on other parts there, there wasn't any at all. So it was like, all right, what's, what's this balance? But I don't, I don't, uh, you know, I don't know where it came from, honestly. Yeah. Yeah. I just know that I wanted more than yeah. More. Yeah.
Speaker 2:
17:06
And it's one of those things where, you know, if you're working for somebody and it doesn't sound like he did a lot of that, I mean you, you kind of were, were given some flexibility in what you were doing when you were working with different people to go out there and kind of be creative and explore a little bit and say, I'm going to build this. I have a vision for that and I'm going to go do it. But there's a lot, there's a lot of people who just don't, they don't even have that kind of instinct, that intuition to go do those things. They like showing up. They like their paycheck, they like, you know, the eight to five type of routine. And it's, it's, it's not like the ones, one's better or worse. I had, what made me think of this is when you were speaking, I just, I left a seminar or as it's a, it's called the genius network.
Speaker 2:
17:45
And I was just there maybe a week and a half ago. I've heard of it. Yeah. Yeah, it's awesome. Awesome event. And there was a guy who hopped on who hopped on and gave us a talk. His name was Cameron something and he's, they call him the CEO whisperer. Okay. So he's like this guy who goes into companies and talks to CEOs and talks to entrepreneurs. And the story that he told was fascinating, and I never thought of it this way, but he was trying to answer the question, why? Why is America so entrepreneurial? Why do we have so much people, so many people here who are willing to take risks and actually go and create businesses? Why is this not replicated elsewhere throughout the world? Okay. And his story says, well, just back up to the founding of the country. He goes, so in order to come to the United States during the, during the 17 hundreds you were even before then, you literally had to drop everything.
Speaker 2:
18:37
You had to leave everything behind in Europe or you know, in, in, in any, any other country to actually make the voyage, drop everything off, leave your family, take almost nothing, hop on a ship that you didn't even really know where it was going. Hopefully it landed, you know, in, in America. And so all of these risks were kind of baked into that process. And then when you get there, if you make it across the boat on the journey there, then you're, you get off the boat, you've got nothing in your pockets, right? Basically you've got, you've got no family there, you've got no friends, you've got no support system, there's no welfare. You don't go to the unemployment line. You just get off the boat with what you have on your, on your back, and you go and you make something of it all in, all in.
Speaker 2:
19:17
And so the, the, he actually was saying, well there's, there's kind of a genetic predisposition to that. Like there's a certain subset of the population that is willing to take that risk. Their vision outweighs their fear of the risk. And so they got on the boat and then all of those people from all over the world landed in America. And then we've been procreating for the last 300 years. And so it's kind of woven into a lot of our DNA in a higher level that it is in other populations throughout the world. And interesting concept. Yeah. Because it's ingrained from a genetic level, from flipping. Yeah. Yeah. Different, different levels of people back with, yeah. Five, six generations ago. Seven generations ago. Yeah. And it's still coming. You know what I mean? For a lot of people immigrating here, it's still kind of that same process.
Speaker 2:
20:02
You know, you have to leave a lot behind, you have to leave your culture behind and you have to make the, make the journey to America. And so it's interesting, you know, there are a lot of people who are, who are, you know, kind of want to be, are wantrepreneurs. You probably have heard that that term, people who want to be caught, you know, calling themselves entrepreneurs. But his argument was now you can't, uh, most people probably shouldn't be doing that. Most people don't have the capability or the mechanism to do that. And then he hit the takeaway from his talk, and I'm going on and on here, but it was about this, this sort of cycle that entrepreneurs go through. They have this kind of roller coaster ride that they ride in their lives where they have this, this upshot where they're really excited about what's coming next. And he calls it uninformed optimism. He says, it's really about,
Speaker 1:
20:48
you know, entrepreneurs. We have that, that, that mindset. We're always looking at the next shiny object. Like you're sitting in that seminar and you're saying, Oh yeah man, we're going to go crush this thing now. Their idea of what a crush it, right? But you really don't know what the hell you're talking about. Objectively. You're just excited about it and you're going to go make it work. But then once you get up in that uninformed optimism, then you usually will come crashing down. You have kind of a return to earth and then you, you need support around those systems and then build it back up and you need kind of riding this wave. And that's what he talks about with these CEOs. And so the long story short, my question to you is, how were you managing all of that? So I know you're married, I know you've got kids and I know you kind of started a business that set that a lot of people told you you can't.
Speaker 1:
21:31
Why would you do that? That's stupid. That's not a good idea. There's no reason to do that. And you said, no, I'm gonna go do it. And you're being very successful at it. I mean, your business is growing, things are booming, life's good. How did, how do you kind of keep persevering through all of that negative talk and riding that roller coaster? You know, I, that's, that's a really good question. Um, and you're right. I mean there's always, you know, some, some of my, some of my better friends, I've always said, man, you know, slow down or you know, my family is always like, wow, you're working so hard. And it's like, um, I don't know. I, I'm, I'm the guy who always has to be doing something right. So I might as well be doing something good. Yeah. Right. And it's like, you know, even when, even when I have, you know, days where I need to relax, I've gotta be doing something. So it's, you know, my relaxing looks a lot different than most, right. So I think, um, I dunno, that's a look, looking at that.
Speaker 1:
22:26
I don't necessarily feel like I'm any different than most people. I just feel like I have a clear vision of what I want. Right. I know what I want. Before I was say 40, I had a clear idea of exactly what that goal look like. And it wasn't a business goal. It was a, it was a personal goal that I needed to accomplish by the time I was 40 and the business helped make that happen. But that wasn't, the business wasn't the goal right now after 40. Okay. So I hit that goal and now it's like, okay, so now 40 now I've got a new goal and that goal does tie into the business, but it ties into, um, who am I doing it for? Right. And it's no longer myself. You know, I am blessed with a phenomenal wife, meaning no rage. Rage gives me so much freedom to do these things.
Speaker 1:
23:21
Um, I mean, Rachel, Rachel's dealt with a lot, like, she's awesome. Um, but she also has trusted me to just get it done. Right. And that's, to have somebody like that that's got your back feels amazing, you know, and, and, and you feel invincible because at the end of the day, it's like, I gotta get it done. Yeah. All right. There's no, there's no not, I got it. I got people that have got to get salaries paid and we've got families to feed and we've got, you know what I'm saying? I totally do. I want you, of course, you get it. Yeah. So it's like there's, there's no, no other way. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think for us it's just a manage. Um, we're big right now on the systems and processes of it all, right. Making sure that we can make things easier. So at the end of the day, I'm not doing this as much as I am every day. Right. Yeah. Because I'm
Speaker 2:
24:17
all the time. Yeah. And I love that cause it [inaudible] the theme of kind of building these systems has been something that has, we kind of touched on it at the beginning of the show when you were saying there's a little bit of that overlap between when you're, when you're renting to somebody and you don't have a clear and defined property management company or somebody kind of handling that interface between the business, the, uh, the property owner and the investor and the tenant. Then there's that Bullard line that comes through and you said, no, Hey look, we have a system here, right? So you can show up and say, this is what is expected of you. This is what is expected of us. We're gonna fulfill this or you're going to fulfill this and we're gonna the, the lines are kind of black and white and then that helps prevent some of that, that pulling at your heartstrings like you had said. Right. And so it sounds like you're doing that in your business, right? As well. You're building out these systems to help you, you know, continue to grow and expand. Where do you see that, that going? Where do you see capstone going? I mean, what's your kind of, you said that you're very goal oriented. Yeah. You just w what's, what's the future look like for you guys? So the company will be, uh, like an employee owned company.
Speaker 1:
25:23
Okay. Um, that's, that's my ride off into the sunset is when I can still still have interest. But a lot of the interests then is also to people that have helped build it along the way. It's awesome. Right? And that's ultimately the end of the day property management where the biggest challenges is finding and keeping really, really good people. Because it's a very tough business. It's property management is always giving somebody bad news, right? That's property management and where good property managers differ from bad property managers is in better communication, better transparency. Right. And those two things alone, building that communication comes with rapport building comes, you know what I mean? There's so many different things that we have to be able to do. If you can get people on the bus that really recognize that vision and realize that yes, we grow and we've been fortunate enough to grow every year, slowly, slowly, slowly, slowly, slowly.
Speaker 1:
26:19
And we're at this point right now where if we can Institute just a few more key pieces, the, the ability of us to take on significantly more properties is going to just be through the roof and we'll hit exponential growth. Right. And we're almost there. Like we're, we're still having some challenges. It's like everybody, right? Sure. But I think that once we get to that stage and we get the right people on board 100% with the buy in, recognizing that they're getting piece back as well. Yeah. It will change everything. Yeah. Um, and, and it makes it so much more fun cause everybody, like we have team meetings now, everybody's bringing ideas and it's like, Oh my gosh, that's cool. Wow. Yeah. And it's like, it's a good culture. It's, it's fantastic. And you know, I sit back and I go, you know, from a few people, even this last week, I was like, wow, that's a really good idea.
Speaker 1:
27:09
Yeah. Like I'm so glad we're talking about this right now because that person just helped me tweak this piece over here unintentionally from this awesome idea that they had. And it's like, just plugging into that more, um, is what I think the future of capstone looks like. Yeah. Yeah. That's super exciting. Do you, is, is property management a competitive space? Extremely. It's gotten ridiculously competitive here in Phoenix. Um, and I, you know, I heard a recent stat, and I don't know the truth to this, but it sounds like property management companies only manage like 20% of the properties here in the Valley. 80% are self-managed. And I thought that that number just sounded crazy high. Um, like 80% self-managed. Um, but I do see if that's the case or even if it's 50%. Yeah. There's still a lot of property out there that could be managed.
Speaker 1:
28:03
And from personal experience, like my team manages my assets, right. I can't make, I can't, um, they, they come to me when big, heavy lifting needs to be done, but I trust them with making the decisions to keeping those things running. Because again, I know that me, I will just like break the system. I'll, I'll make it not work correctly. Sure. Right. And so they run with that stuff and I'm not allowed to talk to the tenants, which we don't allow our owners to talk to tenants, which is great. I follow the same examples if all the same principles, because I know what works and what doesn't. Yeah. Once I get into the mix as an owner, it breaks, right. Things break, somebody gives me feedback and I forget to tell the right person and now we have bad service because I broke it. Right.
Speaker 1:
28:49
Or whatever it is. Yeah. You know, so I'm trying to get myself out of the way of, of more. Um, and I think the team as we grow, we'll just continue to step up and, and that's where we need to be. That's a beautiful dream for our business owner to say, yeah, I need to step out because if I get involved, I'm going to screw something up. Yes. Yeah. You guys are better with helped me, you know, and sometimes, sometimes that's the case. Um, so I mean, I, I have, uh, a default personality when I'm dealing with different things and you know, sometimes that doesn't work. All right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, Arizona is an interesting market, right? I mean, everybody's pouring in here. I heard, I heard a camera number one, some statistic. Yeah. That Arizona is like, number one, like kind of, you know, fluctuating number two with like Nashville or something like that.
Speaker 1:
29:39
Yeah. Maricopa County is like number one in the country for like, we've been in the top for like three years now. It's ridiculous. We have 200 people moving here every day. Wow. Yeah. That's craziness. And think all these people have to have to move somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we still have, so I mean, the real estate market as a whole right now is pretty crazy. Yeah. We've got a ridiculously low amount of supply of houses on the market. We've got like two months supply, which is normalized market is closer to five or six PR five or six months. And what does that mean? That means that, that, that means that if, if tomorrow no houses were added to the market, we would be completely out of houses for people to buy in two months. Wow. Okay. There'd be nothing left. Okay. Yeah. And it's like that's crazy.
Speaker 1:
30:26
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, that's why it's like right now, you know, for people selling, it's, they're getting what they want. However, what we're seeing is appraisers are the ones that are tapering this thing off. Again, they're S they're slowing down that growth. They're saying, no, don't push that price that high. We're going to bring your expectation back down to where it should be. We're not going to let the market get carried away like it had been. Really. Yeah. So when people get worried about it, I mean, just in the last, call it six weeks, our team has had three appraisals come back that were undervalue then where they should be. So it's a very real conversation that I'm having with a lot of our sellers because at the end of the day, you know, like we're putting one on them on the market this week and we're going to price it a little bit higher.
Speaker 1:
31:09
And because I feel that the market could support that, however, it's not up to me. At the end of the day, it's up to an appraiser. I just have to put together a better sales pitch to that appraiser then the next person or than the market can show them. Yeah. Right. So if I can show the value in that home, then great. Then we might be able to push that. Otherwise, no, we need to, we need to get back to where the comps are. Absolutely. Putting it. Yeah. What do you think? Why, why are people pouring in here? I mean, I see, I see apartment buildings going up all over the place. Yeah. I mean, that's a great question. So when you think about anytime something happens in, you know, um, hurricanes, right? They drive people out here, super cold winters, they drive people out here. Um, earthquakes in California, they'd try people out here.
Speaker 1:
31:57
I mean the stats and the things that are happening in California right now with a rent control, right? So now rent control is going to be instituted. So the saddest thing ever, you got people in California right now who are getting displaced because people recognize that after the first of the year, rent control is going to be instituted on all these properties. So they're literally moving people out, bumping up their rents and Oh, okay. So rent control meaning that we don't have that in Arizona doing, no, I don't even, I'm born and raised here so I don't even know what that means, but I've heard of that phrase in, you know, New York city in different places. So that basically means that the property owner cannot charge more than a certain amount of rent. Correct. They can't increase it year over year more than a certain percentage.
Speaker 1:
32:42
Okay. Right. And you know, here in Arizona, we don't have that. Yeah. But at the same time, like, you know, I, I'd say most of our rentals in the last, you know, three years have gone up quite a bit. You know, we had rentals that may, may admin it maybe $900 a month, uh, you know, four years ago and now they're up to 1350. Right. Which is substantial. Yeah. That's a lot. It totally is. Yeah. So I think, you know, that market is still very, very, very strong. Um, but again, it's just a matter of time of seeing what, what happens with the economy and how that affects us. But from a housing perspective, we're still very lean on houses.
Speaker 2:
33:21
Yeah. So, so then maybe some of the Exodus is that people, so in California you're saying, you were saying that the renters or the owners are saying you have to get outta here prior to those laws going into effect.
Speaker 1:
33:32
Yeah. So like right now, um, you know, I've got family in California and they're letting me know that, yeah. They're seeing people being displaced right now, having to move out of their, their current situations, not able to find something else. So those people end up homeless, right. Those people. And that's why the the homeless population and that situation is getting worse and worse there because there's literally nothing affordable for those people. So now after rent control gets instituted, but you know, I think it's, I think it's before any of that really kicks in is when people are making these adjustments. It's like, um, I don't know, not to get political here, but again, it's just, it's one of those things where we, we don't have that here. And we're seeing now more investors that are bringing, you know, their apartments, selling them, they're coming out this way or recognizing that continuing to buy apartments in California doesn't make as much sense as it does in Arizona.
Speaker 2:
34:24
Yeah, yeah. It's tricky. Certainly, you know, because yeah, you don't want to be displacing people, but you also want, you know, the, the property, the owners, the investors, they also want to see a return and they don't want to be kind of locked into a, a system that, that is not profitable for them. So your balance balancing a lot of competing interests, right. So much to think about. Yeah. Yeah. That's a lot. Well, that's a topic for another [inaudible].
Speaker 1:
34:47
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Hey, now I'm, I'm, I'm not even qualified for that one. Yeah. That's heavy stuff. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:
34:54
But the good news is, yeah, I mean, people are, people are flowing into Arizona and they can, you know, you can help them manage their properties. But what about, tell me a, I wanted to ask you about like the Airbnb stuff, the, uh, the, the vacation rentals, because that's something that I think a lot of people, that's kind of like a little gold rush that people are sort of jumping into, right? They kind of buy a property and they're like, Oh yeah, I'm gonna rent this out and make you know, the insane amount of money off of it. For sure. Um, is that something that you guys help with or do you, or are you, you put in a, a full tenant basically?
Speaker 1:
35:28
Correct. So we only do the longterm stuff and you know, our, our behind the scenes, like I'll only bring something into our business if I've it personally and know where those pain points are right now. Honestly, between you and I, like we just bought our first Airbnb with a few months ago. Yeah. This has been our first month of it working and wow. Has it been interesting? Yeah. So it's a, it's a different model entirely. And I love, I like it. I think it's super cool. Yeah. But there's more moving parts than, you know, regular rentals. Um, Rachel is handling it and she's doing a great job with it. But I mean, again, it's, it's sometimes it's pins and needles because whereas we have a response time of, you know, a couple of hours in property management, it's almost like it's gotta be instantaneous and immediate feedback and it's like, Whoa.
Speaker 1:
36:21
Like that's overwhelming. Yeah. You know? So, um, I think realistically, um, that market here in town, I mean is so strong, but I've also seen a lot of people back out of that market cause the numbers just aren't there anymore. Like they used to be. Cause there's, it's so saturated. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's just like anything else, I think people see the see the dollar signs or they hear of somebody who's making the killing on it and they think, I want to get in on that. It's too late by then. Yeah. It's too late. And they don't realize how much work it is. Yeah. You know what I mean? I, I have no experience in that space, but I would imagine that you're going to get people who come to your property trashed the hell out of it, you know, or who are super needy and then you accommodate them.
Speaker 1:
37:00
And they still leave you a bad review and now you're subject to their reviews and it's all sort of, you know, it's all, it's all, all of those different variables. But you know, you have, you have a solid infrastructure for your property management. And I think, I think, you know, with some tweaks maybe you can figure out how to, how to incorporate those other, the, the rental stuff. So, so what that would require is, um, more control over the cleaning systems, right? Um, when we outsource things to vendors, at the end of the day we're at their mercy, right? Yeah. And if somebody can or can't get something done and they say they are, or let's say we have the best vendor in the world, they've been doing a great job for us. It just takes, you know, a couple of different times where it starts to degrade that model and the service and the confidence that things are going to get done.
Speaker 1:
37:45
Um, and I mean, we, we deal with that on the, on the longterm basis all the time. So now to make that even tighter, what we, what we'd end up doing is probably bringing stuff in house. I mean, not sure we've thought about it 100%, I'm sure. Yeah. But I think, um, you know, with what, with our experience of what we're, with this first one that we're doing, um, I'm seeing where those moving parts are, um, can be corrected. Yes. The profit will be good. However, um, you know, I think it comes back to everybody's reason for doing it. Sure. And what's the, I think what, what Airbnb is did for people, in my opinion, I used to talk about property management and say, well, the property management idea isn't sexy, right? It's not a cabin in the woods. It's not a condo down at the beach.
Speaker 1:
38:31
Right. I'm not sitting at a, at a, at a, you know, a table at our dinner party going, Oh, let me tell you about all our properties. Let me tell you about this. Nobody cares. Right. And I'm not super open with sharing that stuff. Um, unless people know me and they, and they really ask and they really want to know. Right. Because otherwise it sounds like gloating. It sounds like, you know, like, Oh yeah, he's talking about properties again. I've been there before with friends trying to get them to invest or, you know, some of them have, um, my toughest client was my mom getting her to do it, but now she's great right now. She, you know, getting her convincing her to go all in was one of the most challenging ones. But you know, after that, now it's like, okay, yeah, but gosh, I'm like all over the place right now.
Speaker 1:
39:19
No, you're good. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's exciting. I mean, there's, you know, real estate is, it's one of those things that I see so many people. There's a guy I follow grant Cardone. Yeah. You know, grant. Yeah. Kind of a goofball. But, um, but I, you know, he, he's made his whole fortune in real estate, that's for sure. So, so here's my struggle with, with that methodology. Okay. So I think like there was a period of like three months where, um, Cardinal musta had something on like his podcast or he was doing something and all of a sudden I had three people over the span that literally, it was like 60 to 90 days, all came to me and told me that, um, asked me about buying a 16 Plex. Right. And they were very specific. They said, tell me what you know, I need to do to buy a 16 Plex.
Speaker 1:
40:05
And I said, okay, like tell me where this is coming from. Like, why do you want to buy a 16 Plex? Yeah. Well and, and they, they talked me through it and I said, Whoa, hold on. Yeah. Like you haven't even bought your first investment property yet. Why are you jumping right into a 16 Plex? And they said, well, you know, cause grant Cardone told me too. And I said, Oh, that's cool. But grant Cardone is a millionaire and you're not. Yeah, yeah. He's got the ability to, to flip and let the thing sit vacant for years if he wants to. Right. Whereas, you know, we've got to create our wealth from the beginning. We've got to start it small and grow it, right, right. Jumping into it, like these guys are talking about buying a 16 plexes like, well you've got to put like 200% down for that, right?
Speaker 1:
40:45
30% down. It's like, you know, and at the time it was like, yeah, we might be able to buy a 16 Plex in the market three years ago for half a million bucks here. But that's hard to find now. You know, and, and, and that's why I think people have to recognize what their, their ultimate strategy and goal is first before looking at product four, looking at they gotta, they gotta come up with an idea, a concept of this is what I want it to look like at the end of the day two and then see if this particular product fits in. That model fits in that goal. Because I think what we run into all the time is we, we don't know what that end goal looks like. We don't know maybe what financially it looks like or, or what the properties look like or anything like that.
Speaker 1:
41:34
And then we just start trying to fill it with all these different properties or all these different ideas and it's like, hold on. Right. Are you a flipper or are you not? Are you older or are you not? Are you right? And it's like so many, so many ideas, so many ideas, but then there's no traction that you ever get for just the one. And that's, that's what I think a lot of those ideas end up, uh, getting people into, right? Yeah. It's a failure to launch because they have this huge idea as to what it's going to be, but they don't realize that the steps to get to that. It's, yeah, it's understanding the steps. Yeah. Those guys are be
Speaker 2:
42:08
doing it for 30 years and you know, those guys are the gurus, right? The, the supposed gurus on the internet. And I like a lot of grant stuff. I mean, don't get me wrong, I like a lot of his content. I think his books are good motivators and things, but a lot of people will make the mistake of confusing. I think entertainment with good advice and they'll just say, Oh, he's doing it. And he said it and you know, they believe them and they get wrapped in this cult of personality a little bit. But then, yeah, I mean a 16 Plex for a first for a first time buyer. I mean that makes, that's insane to me. But you know, I'm sure he's got some interesting advice. He's got some advice on, I'm like, never buy a home, buy the property, only rent in your home.
Speaker 2:
42:47
And then there's this other guy who, who's always like trolling grants on YouTube and he says he does the digging and then he goes into grant stuff and says, well grant actually owns all those properties. He just does it under a different LLC and you know, and like structures everything differently. But my point being is that there's so much information, everybody's got to get rich in real estate scheme thing going on. And they, most people don't know what they're doing. They want to sell you their info product on how to get rich in real estate. But what, you know, what works in their market doesn't work in Arizona and you're so you're kind of in the trenches, you're living it on a day to day basis.
Speaker 1:
43:22
Yeah, for sure. I think you bring up a good point that a lot of people will, will promote something oftentimes that they're not doing themselves or that they don't have any stake in it. Right. They don't have any stake in the success of, you know, whether or not that person goes out and finds that 16 Plex or if it's just like that motivational. Yeah, I gotta get out there and right. Maybe, maybe the 16 PEX is a metaphor for something else. Right? It's a metaphor for, you know, Oh, opportunity. Right? But I think realistically, um, yeah, I, I mean, I, I don't know grant, personally, I think realistically what, what he's got going on is awesome. Right? But for what was brought to me over the span of those months, I just realized like, okay, there's gotta be a more foundational approach to this when people have questions about this type of thing.
Speaker 1:
44:13
Like there's gotta be a clear explanation of the baby steps to getting to that level and what that really looks like. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's, that's what's needed. Is that something that you work with people on? We do. Um, I've actually been working with a couple of, uh, wealth managers here locally, putting together like kind of seminars, talking people through it and not just giving them the good, but also making sure they recognize the bat. Because, you know, there's, there's two different, two different methodologies there where you've got, you know, a wealth manager who, who can do maybe a, you know, uh, take your money and throw it into a rate. Right. You want real estate that way. Sure. Perfect. It's totally hands off. You don't have to mess with anything. Or you take an approach with a company like ours and yes, we can handle everything for them, but then they're more, they're more in control.
Speaker 1:
45:02
They're able to see it, they're able to sure. You know, so it's a little different. Um, neither way is the right way there. It's just both of them are. Both of them are great, honestly. Yeah. But I, I know, I mean, I've, I live and breathe our way, right. I don't just preach it. I've, I mean, you know, I've been stung by it plenty of times. Yeah. You're living in it. Yeah. But at the same time, it's, it's, it's getting somebody to that point of recognizing, okay, let me hear the good, the bad, and maybe the not so good and do what I can to, to make sure that they hear that part. Right. And when they talk me into, Hey, I, this is something that we want to do, then I know that they are going to be a client of ours for a long time.
Speaker 1:
45:41
Yeah. Because we've started the relationship off the right way. Yeah. That's a good foundation. It totally is. Because then, then we're, I know we're on the same level and Hey, this isn't always going to be, you know, rainbows and butterflies. It's, it's hard. But if they've got the budget for it, if they've got the, the risk tolerance for it, it's fantastic. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's one of those things, it's like if you've ever had a conversation with somebody and you want to go do something and they talk, they try to talk you out of it almost. It's like, I know you want to do that, but here's some difficult things to think about. Then you think about it and then you decide to move forward anyways because you've, you've taken that worst case scenario and said, I can live with all of that. If that happens, hopefully it doesn't.
Speaker 1:
46:23
And you move forward and it's like as much stronger relationship rather than both people being 100% kind of gung-ho into it. Yeah. You're having a real conversation about it. Exactly. So tell me about, uh, yes. You're doing all your, you know, you're basically an expert in real estate. You're all over doing all sorts of different things. How are you continuously sort of developing yourself to be that entrepreneur or that business owner, you know, you've got some kind of interesting ideas about turning the company over to your employees and all that stuff. Where are you kind of keeping your, your at your blade sharp? So, um, two and a half, almost three years ago, I, uh, I got into the accelerator program with the EO yeah. And, uh, entrepreneurs organization. And it was the biggest game changer for me. Really. Yeah. Because it showed me, um, it showed me what I was doing wrong, um, and helped me get to the understanding of what I was doing wrong so quickly that then it was just a matter of building a foundation up of doing things right.
Speaker 1:
47:28
So, um, you know, I, I yo is by far, I mean I have a, I have a forum now in EO and they're fantastic. Um, what does that program look like? So, um, the accelerator program is, is learning. Um, it's a lot of learning about outbound the business. It's like the traction stuff to Gino Wickman scaling up. It's, it's all of these, these, it's, it's, it's learning, right? Once a quarter you sit in a, in a room with, you know, gosh, 60 other business owners and you learn from people who've done it and they pre, they they practice, um, you know, four different basically subsets. You've got a, the strategy day, you've got people day, you've got money day, and you've got the execution day, right. And then every month you have kind of an accountability group with an accountability person. And the accountability person is an EO graduate.
Speaker 1:
48:28
Somebody who has already made it to EO. Yeah. Right. And, and you're sitting with your peers and you're opening up about these things that like yourself, like as a business owner, right. How often do you have, you know, these sessions if you didn't have the groups that you're a part of, kind of sometimes feels like you're on an Island. Right? You know? Yeah. It's like, you know, who do you talk to who can understand? A lot of people don't get it. Totally. So this, this group has been a huge catalyst for me in growing the business and trying to grow it the right way and doing what we can to, to take that, take that next step. Yeah. Because again, I think for me, capstone isn't so much about me anymore. Right. I took drum and out of the name a long time ago. Yeah.
Speaker 1:
49:10
Right. Because I recognize that ed drum is just another dude and you know what I mean? And at the same time, it's like capstone is so much better and bigger than that. Yeah. You know, it's, it's everybody there that's getting it done. I mean, they're got a great team man. Like they're awesome. Um, but again, I think EO is by far my biggest way to keep it sharp. Yeah. And that's something that you check in with every month or so. Yeah. So I have a forum meeting every month. I meet with, um, our forum is, let's see, there's eight of us. Um, and we get together once a month, business owners here in the, in the Valley, and we go into deep dives and we talk about personal stuff. Right. It's not so much at this level. Um, I graduated from accelerator in, in, uh, April of this year.
Speaker 1:
50:00
So now instead of it just being learning about the business, it's also learning about personal, right? Really getting to the personal stuff. Um, the, the challenges that I run into the, the, the struggles, the vulnerabilities. Yeah. Right. How often am, you know, am I sharing vulnerabilities with someone? Now it's every month. Yeah. Right. And it's, ah, it's, it's such a wait to have, you know, friends there to listen, you know, that really get it. Because, you know, I'm giving them that, that extra 5% good and bad that, yeah. Yeah. It's like a support group for entrepreneurs. I love it up there. It's amazing, man. It's amazing. My name is Robert [inaudible]. I'm an entrepreneur. That's one of the, but it's good that it's, it's true because you do, you do kind of get alone, you know, and you start there and you start to think that, uh, that it's supposed to be that way, that, you know, you get kind of isolated and everybody's working 12 hour days, you know, and you're just kind of just grinding away.
Speaker 1:
50:59
So that's great. I actually, I actually was exploring checking that out and then I joined the genius network and uh, it's amazing. So, yeah, I mean I have a group, you know, I'm, I'm glad that you do, but I think I'd like to check out the show actually. Come on over. I think there's a few people in your group as well that are, yeah. Over there. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I've, I've definitely heard of genius group. I've heard great things about it. Yeah. That's pretty cool. Yeah. But yeah, you gotta come over and man, you gotta check it out. I'll have to check it out. Yeah. All right, well listen, let's, let's, before we wrap up, tell me who kind of are your ideal clients. Who do you work with? Vast, I know you do a little bit of everything. So you know, you do actually buying, selling homes, you property management, kind of what's your target?
Speaker 1:
51:38
You know, the people I love talking to the most are those that are buying a property for the first time and not sure what that looks like because it's starting that person off with the right mindset of now taking that property and they're going to use it as their first investment property. And it's, it's building the education from the very beginning. Yeah. To me it's the most fun because it's, you know, it's, it's a fresh set of eyes. It's a new, um, you know, somebody who is really there to mold and you can just say, Hey, check this out. Versus, you know, we do have a lot of, of clients that are very seasoned investors yeah. That know what they're looking for. They have a very tight box of what they're looking for. Those people we help as well. But to me it's not as fun as like really coaching people through the steps and Hey, here's some of the pitfalls that are more seasoned investors already know that stuff.
Speaker 1:
52:31
Right. Even better than me. Sure. Right. So, um, so anybody who's kind of just looking to even have the conversation about jumping into real estate. Absolutely. I think if there are at all considering a hold model, buying and holding real estate, we're a great, a great resource for them. And I'm, I have a lot of conversations with people every week just kind of coaching them through that or figuring out if that model works for them. Right. Understanding their risks, understanding, you know, what type of, of maybe volatility in the market and how that would affect them. Yeah. There's a lot of misconceptions as to, Hey, what happens with the market? Or what changes in that? I mean, I could speak from personal experience as to Hey, buying like that property I mentioned at the beginning. Yeah, property is a dog, right? I mean, I could tell you every single which way it was bad that I bought it.
Speaker 1:
53:18
Right. And now it's fine. Yeah, you know, it was what, 10 years ago. Oh no, right. 13 years ago. Right, right. So it's like now property is great and yeah, it's, it's just time, right? It's not sexy. It takes a lot of time. But at the end of the day, like, you know, the goal is to be able to, you know, support my family and uh, leave legacy and you know, have the financial wherewithal to do so. Yeah. Yeah. Well awesome. Where can people find you? What's the best place for them to connect with you? Um, they can find us on our website, which is capstone Realty pros.com and they can also email me at ed at capstone, real T pros.com. Awesome. Ed drumming with capstone Realty pros. Ed, really appreciate you coming on the show, Rob. Thanks man. I totally appreciate you and thanks for being here. Bye.
Speaker 3:
54:08
The griller nation podcast is brought to you by the R and R law group. Arizona's premier criminal defense and personal injury law firm available at www dot our our law, a z.com or give us a call, four eight zero four zero zero one three.
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